Slay the Spire

Slay the Spire

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RNG Fix
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28 Jul, 2020 @ 7:04pm
28 Jul, 2020 @ 9:32pm
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RNG Fix

Description
Random Number Generator Fix

This mod was made after reading this essay on the randomness in Slay The Spire:

https://forgottenarbiter.github.io/Correlated-Randomness/

In summary:

"When you start a game of Slay the Spire, you are assigned (or choose) a 64-bit seed. This seed is used to initialize several random number generators, each in charge of a different aspect of the game. But many of these random number generators are initialized to the same state."

What this means is that the player can know a lot of information they shouldn't if the game were truly random. One such example is the player can know if their next event will be a monster room or not based on the first enemy they encounter. Another example is that by analyzing monster order (or the potion order, or the event order, etc), the player can predetermine the rarity of the chest they receive and its contents by calculating the correct number of fights before entering the chest room.

THIS MOD IS ONLY FOR A VERY NICHE SUBSET OF PLAYERS

Most players will not bother to consider this information when playing, and that's fine. A small subset of players will be aware of these, and subconsciously or not, let that influence their play.

Fundamentally, the seeds of each of the major categories should not be the same. This mod alleviates that issue by using the map seed to generate a unique subset of seeds for each of the major RNG categories of the game. Each seed will still be the same for every player on that seed, but there is no longer any way to use the order of monster fights to predict any information about potion likelihood, or chest rarity.


Plea to the Devs

I believe that this change should be part of the main game, but until this is fixed, this mod will suffice. I will end by reiterating the final message of the blog post:

"If [the devs] happen to see this... I would like to please request a fix for this bug. Luckily, the opportunities for exploiting the interaction between the different random number generators seem to be fairly limited, based on what I currently believe. However, I believe players should never be incentivized to exploit the predictability of rng in order to play optimally. Maximizing the benefit from this predictability requires intimate knowledge of implementation details of the game, and in my opinion, is tedious and unnatural. Even just having the knowledge in this post feels to me like an exploit that is always accidentally active. While I and many others will continue to play, consciously ignoring the existence of the bug, it would at least grant significant peace of mind to know that independent events are truly independent. I know I have reported many bugs for the game, but this is the one that I would currently most like to see fixed."


Thanks
I hope you have a good time with this mod, and I welcome any and all feedback.

If you enjoyed this mod, consider checking out some of my other mods:
A Better Note
A Better Sensory Stone
A Better Match
A Better Knowing Skull
A Better Forgotten Altar
31 Comments
滚滚浪花 30 Nov @ 7:03pm 
I'd like to clarify a couple of things: whether issues like Eternal Feather appearing in Act 4 should be addressed, and if the extremely low probability of the card at the end of the transformation sequence for non-basic card transformations should also be fixed.
just a skunk 20 Nov @ 5:42pm 
I understand the idea, I'm talking about the feasibility. It seems basically impossible to me that somebody could actually memorize the patterns in such a way that they could manipulate the game. Like, do you, personally, actually know any of the patterns? When you play, can you genuinely, without the use of any external tools, see the first combat and reliably know what will happen in the run?
Nichilas  [author] 10 Nov @ 10:20pm 
@just a skunk
If you didn't know the correlation, it might be hard to notice anything directly, but as soon as you notice patterns, you can't really forget them. And you could do silly things like learning the rough outline of the events you will see across the entire run just based on the moves used by your enemies in the first combat.

The real issue is that once you know it, you can't un-know it. Like if you were playing poker and accidentally saw your opponent's hand. You might want to be honest and play as if you don't know the truth, but you are no longer capable of playing the way you honestly would have because your decisions would have been based on speculating about information that you already have.

Like no player would fold pocket Kings, but if you knew your opponent had pocket Aces, you now have to either "cheat" and play based on the information you now have, or knowingly lose by making a bad play just because you shouldn't have known. And neither option feels good.
Nichilas  [author] 10 Nov @ 10:17pm 
@Comrade Guin
Looking briefly at that mod it should work fine. It seems they just changed the weird behaviour of one RNG event calling multiple times, nothing about the RNG itself.

@trottaclovis
The mod doesn't change any RNG, it just unties them from each other. No rarity or chances are different than the base game.
Comrade Guin 10 Nov @ 7:38am 
will this conflict with the determinism fix mod?
https://steamproxy.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3156775649
just a skunk 4 Nov @ 6:36pm 
I'm genuinely curious. When you're playing through without this mod, a normal seeded run, can you, personally, actually predict what will happen? Does this genuinely ruin your experience? Or is this mod simply about the principle of it?
trottaclovis 23 Jul @ 5:32am 
Hello, I recently downloaded this and in my first run, the first shop I opened had bo shop relic but a rare relic (ginger) instead. The only other mods I'm playing with are QOL (map marks, minty spire, relic stats, block reminder). Is this a bug or can it happen in the normal game ? Could this be because of RNG fix ? Thank you and good day y'all
Phoenix_Rising 25 Mar, 2024 @ 5:38pm 
This is a fabulous mod. I have no idea how to give it star ratings, but I would give it five stars.:Bless_Gloomhaven:
『Sora』 16 Dec, 2023 @ 10:58am 
After testing, I can confirm this mod does indeed conflict with that one. Note to anyone if they have this issue in future.
『Sora』 15 Dec, 2023 @ 8:44am 
I know this is probably quite old to be posting on, but I installed this mod alongside friendly seed fix for Spire With Friends, and while I can't be certain the cause (given I don't have other people available enough to test) Friendly Seed Fix seems to no longer be working, and given the rest of the mods are all just characters and relics, I'm curious if you'd know whether this would be the result of this mod conflicting with it?