From The Depths

From The Depths

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Laser and LAMS overhaul 2.15 (OBSOLETE)
   
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11 Dec, 2017 @ 5:52pm
19 Feb, 2018 @ 11:11am
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Laser and LAMS overhaul 2.15 (OBSOLETE)

Description
Needs Gladyon's ProtecTech Industries's plugins tools mod.

A laser overhaul to fix the following problems in the base game:
  • Lasers are really bad against strong designs. 2-3 laser shields completely nullify them for a fraction of the cost of the weapon system.
  • There is no real cost for going very fast. Practically all weapon systems perform better against slow things.
  • Lasers only work with very long optic lines, can't be effectively turreted(definitely won't look good).
  • Damage output on unmitigated lasers is too high, if you remove shields/smoke a <100K cost laser kills godlies costing over 500K in 10 seconds tops.
  • There is no reason to use offensive continuous lasers with only 50% DPS.

Laser optics changes:
  • Lasers have a fixed inaccuracy of 0.05° (+-1.75m error at 2000m)
  • Longer optic lines have a smaller maximum firing angle. At 1m length that's 60°, at 20m 12.5°, 50m ~5.56°.
  • Focusing optics decrease damage lost with distance in air/water.
  • You need 25% of your optic line to be steering to have the maximum possible firing angle.
  • Optic visuals toned down, maxed out they are only ~45% as thick as a 6-steering line in vanilla.
  • Material cost up from 20 to 50 for both focusing and steering
This way there is a tradeoff between firing angle and longrange damage, every setup has some use.

Laser energy changes:
  • Laser pump energy output(DPS) reduced to 20% of it's previous value.
  • Power cost/energy doubled, so it's 40% of a vanilla system with the same parts.
  • Cavity storage is untouched, so it got a relative 25% buff compared to DPS. A bit more leeway to play around with silly setups.
  • Cavity costs halved, pump costs up to 150%.
  • Energy readings changed, so 1 power = 1 laser energy and 2 laser energy = 1 damage (0.5 damage with continuous).
    Just a cosmetic tweak to makes things easier to folllow.
  • LAMS inaccuracy decreased to 0.2° from 0.5°, in practice a ~2.5x buff on effective range (around 300-500m now).
  • LAMS node cost up from 30 to 200 since they do not need to be spammed as much with the new range.
Adding a laser won't triple your crafts's power need, and defenseless fliers can last a little while against a laser in the same weightclass.
LAMS might still be a bit too good despite the 1/5 damage, will see.

Laser defense changes:
  • Laser shields no longer cost energy, only engine power.
  • Continuous lasers have twice the AP of pulsed, with the same half damage as before.
  • Instead of directly reducing damage shields now cut laser AP to 1 / (2 * SHIELD_STRENGTH), 50% - 5%. Only the strongest shield hit counts.
  • Wavefront cuts laser damage in half, but quadruples the amount of AP the laser has after hitting shields (100% at STR1, 20% at STR10).
  • Smoke reduces damage to 30% for each layer, 50% with wavefront.
  • APS smoke shells removed.
  • Frequency doubler cost up to 200.
Now there is a drawback to going fast, stacked smoke is the only perfect laser defense but it gobbles up resources at 100 m/s.
Against 1 layer of smoke no wavefront is slightly better, against more wavefront takes over so it's not a clear-cut case which one should you use.

Adding more doublers is very costly: every 100 AP in itself costs more than the rest of the system with engines.
You get a much better volume efficiency against strong shields but potentially throw away damage against weak ones/smoke/soft targets mostly made of wood/flight surfaces.
Continuous is very good against shielded flyers, no overkill on soft bits and same total DPS as pulsed.

LAMS changes:
  • Option to target only out of water/under water projectiles
  • Options to target only projectiles with a diameter above X mm and/or below Y mm (missiles are 500mm)
  • Option to stop firing when under smoke
  • Inaccuracy reduced to 0.05°
  • Damage loss at range increased(only does 75% at 500m, 56.25% at 1000)
  • Improved targeting:
    - will look for another target when the previous one is starting to get further away
    - stricter angle/distance checks
    - less possible downtime against destroyed projectiles

Burst lasers:
  • Cavity storage up to 125%
  • Default cavity discharge rate is down to 25%
  • Destabilizers are now affecting the entire coupler, not only the cavity line they are on
  • Each destabilizer doubles discharge rate, up until using the entire cavity in 1 sec at 5

Misc:
  • There are now 10 wireless AI channels available.
  • Better tooltips all around.
  • Fixed a vanilla bug causing pulsed lasers to have 1 AP with some setups.
  • Fixed a vanilla bug causing the first layer of smoke to count as 2.
Popular Discussions View All (1)
4
10 Jul, 2018 @ 7:35pm
PINNED: Having trouble?
Draba
44 Comments
FrostyRex 15 Apr, 2020 @ 12:23am 
Draba Can you make more mods please mostly for More kinds of APS shell modules
Dr Kreuzer 4 Apr, 2020 @ 8:25am 
if only lasers were this accurate u.u
Space_Lettuce_OG 27 Aug, 2018 @ 4:25pm 
@Darba

Congrats on the new job with Brilliant Skies! If anyone here deserves it, it's you.

Now, I 100% mean this in a non-badgering, or harassing kinda way, as I am a modder, and I know how how annoying getting asked this question is, especially when I am busy.... So, feel free to take your time answering this whenever you feel up to it....

Q1: Do you have an ETA on when this mod will be updated to the new stable version?

Now I also have another question...

Q2: Now that you work as an official developer on FtD, and have a lot more knowledge of the plans for the future, in terms of balancing and weapon systems, do you have any plans for changes/additions/removals of things to this mod?
Space_Lettuce_OG 19 Aug, 2018 @ 6:38pm 
@Darba
I was procrastinating looking at the dll, cuz I am on linux, and didn't feel like booting up my windows drive, but I did yesterday.
I took a look at the APS stuff in the dll, and boy, I don't know where to start. If I buff something, it almost seems to be OP, balancing the APS is hard. Although there are some obvious tweaks, like increasing AP on disruptor tips, but I see why you didn't want to touch it with a 10 ft pole.

I think I am just gonna hold out on doing anything to it.
I did however change the chargers to connect to each other, just to reduce part count, as well as the gauge splitter being able to send and recieve from all 3 of it's directional tubes.

Balancing was always the second thing I most disliked about modding, texturing being the worst. So, thanks for making this laser overhaul mod, it works really well, and I find the balancing and trade-offs to be just right.
Draba  [author] 11 Aug, 2018 @ 11:37am 
FtD files aren't obfuscated, modders use ILSpy or other decompilers to see what's under the hood.
You'll also want this mod by Gladyon: https://forum.fromthedepthsgame.com/showthread.php?tid=26433

I wouldn't start with APS now as there is a big FtD overhaul currently in devtest, it's guaranteed to break overhauls pretty hard.
Space_Lettuce_OG 11 Aug, 2018 @ 10:27am 
@Draba

Okay, I have been reading eveyrthing I can find, but I cannot find any sort of API with objects and their stats for the APS. I looked through your csproject for this mod, and I saw code for stats that relate to an object, like

"
public class LaserCavity : global::LaserCavity
{
static LaserCavity()
{
energyDrainPerSecond = 0.05f;
}
....
"

Yet I cannot find anything even rmeotley like this for APS(or anything, lasers included)
I could not for the API on the modding pages. Could you please tell me where I can get this information, because either Google is derping in it's search engine and not pointing me in the right direction, or FtD's isn't providing the information(which is impossible, since you found the info somewhere)?????

I appreciate the help.
Space_Lettuce_OG 10 Aug, 2018 @ 6:00pm 
@Draba

Well, that is super disappointing to hear. I really like the idea of railguns, and I usually try to use them no matter what game I am playing. It's a shame Nick said they won't overhaul it...

I'd be willing to take a crack at improving it. I'm a programmer, and have modded plenty of other games before. Balancing is always one of the hardest parts.. and with the complexity of APS, I understand why you aren't interested int giving it a shot. I may try to improve it for my particular play style, even if I may leave an exploit here or there, I just won't use any exploits.


Thanks for the informative reply!
Draba  [author] 10 Aug, 2018 @ 4:15pm 
Main problem is that acceleration is way too cheap/strong, even 1000 m/s railguns can't hit any strong designs.
An example: https://steamproxy.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1099697729
There are smaller things all over the place:
- gauge scaling
- HE/frag/EMP scaling
- EMP being universally bad
- HEAT/HESH mechanics being counterintuitive/bad against anything good
- disruptor speed modifier makes cannons even more useless against fast things
- ...

Biggest reason I won't touch it is that Nick said APS won't get overhauled again, even the linear cooling change was taken out from 2.0 before it hit stable.
No point in coming up with better systems if the devs aren't interested in an improvement.
Space_Lettuce_OG 7 Aug, 2018 @ 9:41am 
@Draba

While I bought the game a while ago, I just started playinh last night.

I read you said that you don't wanna try to fix APS, or touch it with a 10-foot pole....
If you don't mind me asking, would please explain what's wrong with APS turrets right now?
The cliff notes or tldr version is fine, if you're busy.
I haven't built one, and your explaination could save me many hours of frustration!
123nick 5 Jun, 2018 @ 9:07pm 
how will this affect vanilla lasers, which arent changed for stuff like this in mind? will they still work mostly ok?