I like the patch so far, I think he's in a better spot than before, at this point I think the only things really needing addressing are some of the Forward Specials.

Sonic Slicer is currently less of anti-air and more of an all purpose area denial and kill move, I think a reduction in knock back and making it not an active hit box until it has actually started moving would be a good change.

Frost Shield putting you into Special Fall is rather weird and doesn't feel needed, I also think it should travel a bit faster and farther once it's primed.

Ground Hunter I think just needs a larger cool down, maybe slightly reduced travel speed.

Spike Ball doesn't feel very useful right now, it's potential area denial I feel is better covered by other options, I think it might be better as a Dedede Gordo esc gravity effected ball, I know that's not super accurate to it's X5 counterpart but I think it would better differentiate it from the rest of the Specials. If you think that's divulging too far I'd suggest maybe swapping it with Metal Anchor from X6, giving X a Belmont like tool to check recoveries from below the ledge.

Twin Slasher frankly feels rather pointless and I'm not entirely sure what it's purpose is supposed to be. I don't think the small amounts of damage it provides justifies using it over X's other options, I think replacing it with something like the charged Speed Burner or the Strike Chain from X2 would be better, as currently X doesn't have much in terms of horizontal recovery options and can be checked quite easily. Another Idea is replacing it with Soul Body from X4, giving X a small line of defense while he charges his Buster.

Well those are my suggestions, I hope you take some of them into consideration and I wanna say that I really do enjoy the character and appreciate the work you've put in so far. I look forward to any future updates and characters you have planned.

Okay, I have an issue with current down air and forward air. I'm not a fan of X having a dive kick, and forward air's current animation isn't that great. If it was taken from Infinite instead, it'd look better. as for down air, I want it to be a different move. ATM I don't have powerups or moves I can think of for down air, but if there's nothing to pull from, you could switch the current forward air animation to down air, and hammer buster to forward air.

This is more of a implementation thing than a balance thing, but I think it would be better if when you were attacked while charging the X Buster, that the charge remains in the buster. It can leave you wide open if you assume you have a charged shot stored up, but you press the special button and all that comes out is a lemon.

Originally posted by Seesaw Effect:

This is more of a implementation thing than a balance thing, but I think it would be better if when you were attacked while charging the X Buster, that the charge remains in the buster. It can leave you wide open if you assume you have a charged shot stored up, but you press the special button and all that comes out is a lemon.

It worked like that in a previous patch, but I found that it was at least in my groups testing that it wasn't all that fair. X is incredibly oppressive mid to long range and especially off-stage, I think it's better that you can stop him from getting to that oppressive game state, similar to Samus in Smash. Also it's more accurate to the origin games.

Patch was great but im mourning the loss of down tilt, its such a classic megaman x move and felt so satisfying following it up with up tilt :'(

After playing X for an absurd amount of time in terms of balancing i have a few suggestions for a couple moves (although ik im a bit late and you already have stuff planned)
- Down tilt seems like a bit of a nerf and when i look at it feels like it more belongs in a fighting game, while it fits the purpose of a "combo tool" i feel the original downtilt he had (the slide) could be better if it had some reworking and might even lead to him having more opportunities and not only that it makes him feel like the "faster mega man" concept he was supposed to be (and also i thought downair to downtilt to give X more forward momentum was a very neat idea)
- Back air seems to be a bit too strong super spammable and overall just too safe theres little to no risk of using it since X is not extending any part of his body out in anyway and the move itself is a "Projectile" and killing at 70-80 percent from center stage seems like overkill (this is probably the move i have gotten the most stupid kills with), it almost feels like his other kills options are obsolete compared to back air because of how early it kills and of how safe it is overall. with every major kill option theres a drawback Fully charged shot you have to not get hit to use it and Up tilt you have a ton of end lag so if you wiff your in danger, with back air however you can just spam it to your heart content till your opponent eventually screws up and has to take it (although i do think it is cool that its a reference to the weapon get from X4)
- Uncharged Neutral B/Lemons it either needs more damage or a slight bit of knockback (ik theres a slight bit of knockback when your opponents in hitstun but its barley noticable and you only get 2-3 shots in for 1 percent doesnt make much of a difference) Charged shots make it almost obsolete due to it having zero knockback (and honestly being able to shoot more than 3 lemons is also a bit weird since all mega man characters can only shoot up to 3 lemons at a time) ik the move originally was only 3 and had hitsun and it was god awful to deal on the receiving end so what i would do to change is limit the range of the lemons (i measured it in training mode but i feel like cutting it down to by 4 blocks seems like a fair trade off) but make it have a slight bit of hitsun/damage and cutting the lemon count to 5 onscreen to 3 on screen (and also theres that glitch where you can just spam bustershots in air to stall although considering how you fixed it with Zero i assumed it will get fixed within the next couple patches)
- Forward air is just a move i personally have the most gripes with and overall just never use and it feels to me really out of place, on paper its a good idea for a combo move but in execution due to how the move kind of is its both really hard to hit and even if you do hit it the reward for landing it the reward is not worth the effort, and not only that this move compared to everything he has in in his kit seems pretty lack luster for example comboing into his current down tilt he can do a couple better things than just using forward air (nair into whatever, charge shot, down air to jab to up tilt) and even offstage i see no use to using it (other than spamming it to gain air time to stall which i dont think is supposed to be intentional) because his other arials can just do a lot better. Imo i think the forward air he use to have was a much better fit for both X and his kit (and it was so much more satisfying to use and land that sweet spot) and it also could just be me but i think having both forward and back air being buster moves makes kind of makes forward air almost feel really forced and "Oversaturated" considering how many special weapons X has in his arsenal
Overall thats all i have to say in terms of Balancing aside from all of those gripes i have probably spent the most time with X then any other character in rivals and hes the character ive by far had the most fun with and i think you have done an amazing job incorporating him to rivals. I look forward to seeing what the future of this mod holds...
(edit i hopefully explained things a bit better since i wasnt really happy with how i explained things lol)

Overall this update 4.2 is a big improvement to how he was previously hes a lot more fun to play now, theres really only 2 things however from this patch that i think need some addressing

The main One that has to be addressed is...

- Up Special (Lightning Web) i feel is way to broken to have as his up special or even in his kit entirely, X already has a lot of good stage control and getting him offstage is the biggest disadvantage he has and is one of the biggest ways to take away his stock since rising fire wasnt that "good" of a recovery which isnt a bad thing but it fit his playstyle perfectly where if you got him off stage it would make it harder for him to get back on. However Lightning Web is pretty much a free platform/stage control putting away one of his main ways to get killed. And not only this can make his offstage game one of the mostly aggressive ive ever seen with little to no disadvantage (although im not gonna lie it is really fun to play around with) he can stall you offstage if you try to edgeguard him and fire whatever projectile he feels like and depending on what he does you may have to back off entirely. OR if your on the receiving end he can do a whole bunch of things offstage ranging from gimping your recovery (since the up b is essentially a platform and you cant go through it) or it stuns you and X can do a multitude a things depending on what your location is on lightning web (Down Air, F Smash, Back Air, Etc) which can get you killed as low as 0 percent. and not only that the long cooldown timer makes the move feel like it originally belong to be a special move for his down special. I would say make this apart of his Down special but everything we have for the Down specials id say are already fine as is and having platform type move would be too broken, the biggest thing i can compare this too is Steves blocks in smash, Steve doesnt really have any projectiles the only thing he has is minecart so he cant really do much in terms of stage control and not only that he has limited space on where he can put it and it also doesnt block your opponents recovery. X on the other hand has no limit of where he can put it it stuns and a ton of projectiles so dealing with him in the air is a really big hassle on the receiving end to say the least. i really dont feel like he should have something like this in his kit i think rising fire fit him perfectly fine. (also there are some glitches with Lightning web that can cause it to forcibly push you off of it when your on top of it and if your offstage when that happens your pretty much dead due to the 6-7 second cooldown)

The last one and this is more of just a knockback thing...

- Up Tilt Currently the move seems like it has 0 knockback scaling which can result in it comboing into itself numerous times, idk if this is a bug or intended feature so i thought id just might put this because i think giving it knockback might benefit it more for combos. or hell even giving the tip of X leg a sort of tipper effect might help but idk

(edit) thought this should also be mentioned)

- Ultimate Armor now that the damage has been nerfed i feel theres less incentive to go for it considering all the drawbacks if you wiff it 50 damage compared to losing all my projectiles and my recovery doesnt seem like a good trade off, the main purpose of going for it at such a high percent was that damage (although i do agree its a bit much) and not only that its kill power is a bit lacking since the nerf it really only kills at 100 or higher, what i would consider doing is either making the knockback higher (so its like a final smash), Make it do an extra 25 percent that way it seems a bit more worth to go for. or just rework it in some way (just an example) make it so X can use it at any time during last stock and have it so it either doesnt remove specials from the equation and make it less predictable when X will go for it. Or hell even rework it like make it an install like in a fighting game he can use at 100 percent and it buffs all his moves and brings the plasma charge shot but after a certain amount of time after using it X loses his specials (i would actually love to see this but i get that would take a lot of work to both make sprites and program)


Overall thats all i have to say about update 4.2 id say its a big improvement over 4.1, Keep up the good work and i cant wait for big update that will soon to be dropped (also if i have more suggestions ill just edit this one)

while less of balancing decision id like it if x charging his nspecial in the air wouldnt kill all his momentum like with zero. speaking of that, a unique sprite for x charging his buster in the air would be nice too.

i also agree with what Kamui said up ahead with the ultimate armor- it really dosent feel all too worth it anymore, id like to see it reverted. Although im not sure on the new upspecial- perhaps if the duration itd stay was reduced slightly and you could jump through it from below without being stunned itd be more feasible?

thats giving me a funny thought, what if x's upspecial didnt contribute to recovery at all but instead he could wall jump multiple times. potentially really broken but just a hypothetical oops

I would also like to see his N special not kill momentum and also have a special charging/falling and firing sprite offstage (maybe could use the backair sprite as the firing sprite with a bit of kick back)

Also with Upspecial if you made the cooldown even more it would be less consistant while recovering which is also another problem i have with it is that upspecial also has a cooldown of when you can use it again (which again makes it feel like it was a downspecial move at some point turned to recovery), rather than having X having a recovery he could use at all times that refreshes on wall jump (like rising fire) which now that i also think about it the nature of it being a platform recovery also makes the walljumping mechanic a nonfactor as well. and personally i feel like he was way more balanced as a character with a recovery like rising fire. and also if your opponent could pass through Lightning web it could potentially also work in X's favor aggressively say if he places it above there opponent while they were trying to recover X could just do whatever move the opponent passes through with the correct timing. Overall it being a platform in nature i feel is way too much for X to have in his arsenal in terms of his kit and what he can do, and again it being a platform recovery that can only be used one time and then you have to wait and doesnt refresh on wall jump makes it both feel less consistant as a recovery and just makes a central mechanic of the game feel Restricted/Obsolete.

I wasn't talking about the cooldown, I was talking about how long the platform is active before disappearing to make it less abusable especially in the utility aspect. currently it's three seconds. but yeah fair enough. Rising fire felt more consistent anyway as a up special, so I'll just agree and ask for a revert

Yo, thank you for continuing to use X and providing feedback, I'll address a few suggestions here mainly for brainstorming

1. For lightning web, I thought it was funner to use than rising fire and opened up more opportunities for cool looking combos with X, but I see the point about balancing. I'm not sure how to go about it but I don't want to straight up remove it, so maybe giving it a limited use like 4 or 5 per stock would help? That or I could make it only usable upon meeting a specific condition or something. Also could make it destroy the platform if something hits it. If I can't think up with a way to balance it though I'll just revert it to rising fire

2. I'll give X unique air charge sprites next update and remove the momentum kill (I forgot to this update)

3. No KB scaling on the utilt was intentional, I thought it'd help with combos but maybe not

Thanks again for continuing to use X, I'm not sure when the next update will be ready but it'll be considerably big. Also for the ultimate armor suggestion, I do have bigger plans for that than what it currently is.

Originally posted by Wabbles:

Yo, thank you for continuing to use X and providing feedback, I'll address a few suggestions here mainly for brainstorming

1. For lightning web, I thought it was funner to use than rising fire and opened up more opportunities for cool looking combos with X, but I see the point about balancing. I'm not sure how to go about it but I don't want to straight up remove it, so maybe giving it a limited use like 4 or 5 per stock would help? That or I could make it only usable upon meeting a specific condition or something. Also could make it destroy the platform if something hits it. If I can't think up with a way to balance it though I'll just revert it to rising fire

2. I'll give X unique air charge sprites next update and remove the momentum kill (I forgot to this update)

3. No KB scaling on the utilt was intentional, I thought it'd help with combos but maybe not

Thanks again for continuing to use X, I'm not sure when the next update will be ready but it'll be considerably big. Also for the ultimate armor suggestion, I do have bigger plans for that than what it currently is.

The main problem with lightning web is itself is just cause of how it is its kind of flawed/limited in terms of how to balance it due to its nature and how X is, if you do limit lightning web to 4-5 uses per stock it could really severley hurt him or all together kill him in terms of recovering by giving him a limit (thats already a problem i have with it already is kind of the feeling of losing consistancy),(idk where else to put it but having it be broken via hit could also be weird with characters that have aoe moves or even usable on certain condition could overcomplicate things) and again i still think the recovery itself of it being a platform both gives X a completley broken as both a recovery (it pretty much gives him both 4 jumps and 2 airdodges) and just his kit in general and it completley eliminates the insentive of walljumping due to it not refreshing via walljumping like risingfire. Personally i would like to have Rising fire back, However i think the move is a little fun to screw around with due to its properties and with in terms of combos and such so it could potentially fit the spot as a rune that way its not completley gone.

Also with UT the first hit is useful to combo into some things say Crouched Uptilt and nair although like i said i do think the tip part of the leg should have a sort of tipper effect (Like Marth but idk how to go about programming that) so it sends you higher and knocks the opponent away so you can do more options and so it doesnt combo into itself numerous times and makes it a better oppurtinity to combo into up air or even grounded up special.

I think a revert to rising fire would be more appropriate as cool as it is. The Tipper on uptilt could also be cool

I've started playing X when a friend re-introduced me into the workshop, and I must say, I really dislike the changes that were made on May 31st. This is mainly because of the reason that was chosen for the update as he now feels even more awkward to play than before, and there are some reasons behind it.

From my personal experience with playing X, he feels out of place receiving more tilts whether you hold or tap the button, it makes for a slightly jank experience when you want to use your uppercut rather than your upwards kick. It makes the character more complex (It also has a small bug where the hitbox would be the normal up tilt rather than the held one).

The Up Special makes X feel like a dumbed down Kragg with no big pillar, and if someone hits it, binds them and gets their recovery back. It's not fun to use, and even feels like it makes X way less fun to play. You get more zoning options, but to play on stage it makes him feel like it just adds a better recovery to those who needed it, or even makes you get gimped by having a cooldown on the up special, allowing you to die when you're unprepared off stage way more easier. To really sum this up, X now feels like he has the up special of a bootleg Kragg.

Another thing that feels awkward are the changes to the aerials, mainly both back, and forward air. Back air feels way to heavy but I can see it being a kill option and that is fine. But forward air feels like it was forced. It feels like Mario's forward air, but extended and broken, having it spike at low percentages like 39%. The three-hit move was always a fun, and easy combo finisher if you really needed it.

The one thing I did like about this was down-special, but I would love to suggest one option. Have it so you don't require an input every time for down special, as it feels way more toned down if you want to swap from say, Metal Anchor to Spinning Blade you would need to tap down special 5 different times, leaving you open for a few seconds, when you could combo in a few seconds.

Honestly with this compared to what was made, I feel like this only made the point of more fun and less confusing was the inverse where he feels way more janky than he should. But that's my subjective opinion, but I hope this can help for the future balancing of this already fun to play character.

Originally posted by Zapper514:

I've started playing X when a friend re-introduced me into the workshop, and I must say, I really dislike the changes that were made on May 31st. This is mainly because of the reason that was chosen for the update as he now feels even more awkward to play than before, and there are some reasons behind it.

From my personal experience with playing X, he feels out of place receiving more tilts whether you hold or tap the button, it makes for a slightly jank experience when you want to use your uppercut rather than your upwards kick. It makes the character more complex (It also has a small bug where the hitbox would be the normal up tilt rather than the held one).

The Up Special makes X feel like a dumbed down Kragg with no big pillar, and if someone hits it, binds them and gets their recovery back. It's not fun to use, and even feels like it makes X way less fun to play. You get more zoning options, but to play on stage it makes him feel like it just adds a better recovery to those who needed it, or even makes you get gimped by having a cooldown on the up special, allowing you to die when you're unprepared off stage way more easier. To really sum this up, X now feels like he has the up special of a bootleg Kragg.

Another thing that feels awkward are the changes to the aerials, mainly both back, and forward air. Back air feels way to heavy but I can see it being a kill option and that is fine. But forward air feels like it was forced. It feels like Mario's forward air, but extended and broken, having it spike at low percentages like 39%. The three-hit move was always a fun, and easy combo finisher if you really needed it.

The one thing I did like about this was down-special, but I would love to suggest one option. Have it so you don't require an input every time for down special, as it feels way more toned down if you want to swap from say, Metal Anchor to Spinning Blade you would need to tap down special 5 different times, leaving you open for a few seconds, when you could combo in a few seconds.

Honestly with this compared to what was made, I feel like this only made the point of more fun and less confusing was the inverse where he feels way more janky than he should. But that's my subjective opinion, but I hope this can help for the future balancing of this already fun to play character.

I agree with a lot of things and have some disagreements

Up tilt - Having 2 uptilts is somthing im kind of split with i do think its not very beginner friendly (although i do think there are other rivals characters that have mutiple of one moves that have the same fault in that way so i dont think that should be the end all be all) and the new up tilt is a little jank and the old one is a little hard to execute, although apart of me appreciates having the option between the two different ones once the uptilts "work" and it allows me to experiment with combos although i agree the input feels a bit jank and it could probably be fixed in some way, but if theres not a way to make it work it can always be removed. (my personal suggestion for it to make it more obvious that he has a second up tilt and how to execute while hes crouching maybe make a small charge/aura to maybe push along new players that X can do somthing new while crouched but thats just what came at the top of my head)

Up Special - Ive already talked about but i agree with 100 percent.

Both aerials - I do think back air is perfectly fine although forward air i think is miles better than what it was the patch before, The move itself is something i use offstage compared to what it was previously, its a reference to Marvel Vs Capcom and the aerial itself has pretty much been the same since release (unless you count the previous patch which my opinions of are above). Although i do see what you mean by it and i think the main problem is each version of the aerial has been different in some ways and i do think this one is more straight through in terms of the kick itself resulting in it being a lot bigger than what it was in previous iterations or even in MVC (if anything its supposed to be like snakes forward air if you get what i mean), and the move as of currently does not have any kick back compared to the other iterations which also made it harder to land. i do think this one might be the most broken out of the forward airs do to it not only it being huge having a really generous spike hitbox and not having any kickback whatsoever. I think if the animation itself was more accurate to Marvel VS Capcom and didnt hit under/behind him and the spike hitbox was smaller and even if he was a bit slowed down while using it this would be a lot better.

Down Special was originally like that and id say add that as a say add a "taunt :for scrollable down special" Similar to what characters like Samus have before the start of a game although my main gripe about having that was offstage swapping between weapons say if i wanted to swipe to say Speedburner was a nightmare due to the fast paced nature of this game. So hopefully if that becomes a thing that is a little more fleshed out.