Will a pre-patch build be available for download as a stand-alone?

After these massive nerfs, I'll have to reassess which limbs are beneficial and make more limbs to replace the ones that now don't seem usable (as well as find replacements for marksman arms), and I actually enjoyed where they were before. I could understand a nerf, but with these changes I can't even justify using power or swift arms on anyone using a bladed weapon due to the strength and dex debuffs respectively, even as masterwork MkIII. I get what you were going for, but this seems like more than overkill.

Originally posted by Troxtrot:

Will a pre-patch build be available for download as a stand-alone?

After these massive nerfs, I'll have to reassess which limbs are beneficial and make more limbs to replace the ones that now don't seem usable (as well as find replacements for marksman arms), and I actually enjoyed where they were before. I could understand a nerf, but with these changes I can't even justify using power or swift arms on anyone using a bladed weapon due to the strength and dex debuffs respectively, even as masterwork MkIII. I get what you were going for, but this seems like more than overkill.

This entire discussion is about finding a happy balance for everyone so i'm always happy to hear feedback. Most of the adjustments were made under the premise that people will be playing with other limb mods of various strengths and weaknesses.
I wanted to tune the vanilla limb's and the more unique skeletons limbs to be the "end all be all". But i wanted to give certain other limbs a chance to shine through too.

So I was really enjoying this mod and when I booted up the game today to find my crossbow guys with no arms I thought something had broke somewhere so I did this whole thing of verifying game files and checking mod load orders but apperantly it was because some people thought the limbs were a little OP?

Being endgame robotic replacments in a singleplayer game isn't that fine? It's up to the individual on what they want to use or not in their game and I had fun with the mod as it was but now a bunch of my guys are missing arms and I havn't checked what the difference are on other stuff but that does put a downer on things. Personally it kind of ruined my playthrough and I would like to second the notion of having a pre-patch standalone version. Seems like the way for everyone to be happy.

So far here is what im thinking. For changes
1) add back the research for unique or leave them as is?

2) if research is added back should they be able to craft MK3s of anything? (Im thinking not) it doesnt make sense for the player, 1000 years later to be able to craft such high grade jumps in power. Which is why i removed the unique research in the first place but kept the MK3S.

3) balance out the levels and gear by axing certain research levels. I.e. it's basically all the same but you cant craft MK3s (think weapons, how you cant craft meitou weapons)

4) not going to garuentee anything. But im thinking of cutting the limbs i have out of genesis and adding them here. This means new textures, models, limbs etc. But it would also change how all the limbs are found, created amd received thoughout this overhaul. Its also a big change to the mod and joes vision. On top of that it is also a lot of work as unlike genesis which is meant to be harder, i'll have to balance all limbs around vanilla and each other all in one go. BUT. it would be a great addition.

Mind you this is just a passing thought for me, as its a huge timesink for me and if i do get permission for all the mods (again), the update would take me almost a month to rework. So if i go this route, i'll just rollback the mod and then proceed with a better update from scratch. BUT there will be wildly varying stats overall. Skeleton limbs will be the base set with others falling in line around them, and there may not be as many "levels" to limbs.

Originally posted by Atlas:

Originally posted by Troxtrot:

This entire discussion is about finding a happy balance for everyone so i'm always happy to hear feedback. Most of the adjustments were made under the premise that people will be playing with other limb mods of various strengths and weaknesses.
I wanted to tune the vanilla limb's and the more unique skeletons limbs to be the "end all be all". But i wanted to give certain other limbs a chance to shine through too.

Firstly, I'd like to apologize as in retrospect my original post sounds a lot more rude than I meant it to be lol. I think I was just tired and grumpy after a long day at work combined with feeling unable to play my Kenshi save due to the changes.

I also misunderstood part of the intent as well, as this limb mod is I think my only one in use, so I'm not aware of how other limb mods interact with it to fill the gaps. I also didn't know that OG skeleton limbs were touched either, I just saw the str/dex/marksman specific ones and immediately went for them. I'll take another look at the base skeleton ones and see how those weigh out once I make some nice masterwork versions. Also, for the uniques, I'm personally totally okay with that change (tbf I hadn't gone up against the Cat-Lon crew yet so I don't know what the stats are) since I'm a fan of trophy equipment from hard enemies. Since that whole corner of the world is basically end-game anyways, I don't see a huge benefit to being able to craft these (assumingly) god-tier robotic limbs if you're already at the point where nothing else really stands a chance. I'll also have to take a look at your genesis mod and see what kind of changes are made with limbs there to see if I'd endorse option #4. Side note: I use Kenshi Kaizo and UWE, can you confirm if either would conflict with it? If it's answered on the mod page, ignore this as I'm about to go look into it :p

Originally posted by Troxtrot:

Originally posted by Atlas:

This entire discussion is about finding a happy balance for everyone so i'm always happy to hear feedback. Most of the adjustments were made under the premise that people will be playing with other limb mods of various strengths and weaknesses.
I wanted to tune the vanilla limb's and the more unique skeletons limbs to be the "end all be all". But i wanted to give certain other limbs a chance to shine through too.

Firstly, I'd like to apologize as in retrospect my original post sounds a lot more rude than I meant it to be lol. I think I was just tired and grumpy after a long day at work combined with feeling unable to play my Kenshi save due to the changes.

I also misunderstood part of the intent as well, as this limb mod is I think my only one in use, so I'm not aware of how other limb mods interact with it to fill the gaps. I also didn't know that OG skeleton limbs were touched either, I just saw the str/dex/marksman specific ones and immediately went for them. I'll take another look at the base skeleton ones and see how those weigh out once I make some nice masterwork versions. Also, for the uniques, I'm personally totally okay with that change (tbf I hadn't gone up against the Cat-Lon crew yet so I don't know what the stats are) since I'm a fan of trophy equipment from hard enemies. Since that whole corner of the world is basically end-game anyways, I don't see a huge benefit to being able to craft these (assumingly) god-tier robotic limbs if you're already at the point where nothing else really stands a chance. I'll also have to take a look at your genesis mod and see what kind of changes are made with limbs there to see if I'd endorse option #4. Side note: I use Kenshi Kaizo and UWE, can you confirm if either would conflict with it? If it's answered on the mod page, ignore this as I'm about to go look into it :p

Genesis is a TOTAL overhaul. So it quite literally is all or nothing. A rebuild from scratch of kenshi. So it actually isnt compatible with almost literally every mod without specific patches.


Also thanks for the apology, though not necessary.


If anyone else happens to read this, go through the genesis contributor list discussion page. Page 3/4 have most if not all new limb additions and should be able to give you a better idea of what can be added to THIS overhaul so that you can get more bang for your buck, but also play with cleaner load orders and without needing 500 limb mods :) (some of the models are simply amazing)


As a side note, the stats will and can be (assuming the other assets are added) adjusted to be more fair for vanilla playthroughs. Every limb will still have a place but can always be balanced to be a little more powerful with less downsides.

My thoughts on balance are bring back marksman arms, make uniques uncraftable but buff them a little again, allow MK3 and everything else to be researchable and craftable.

Originally posted by No Name:

My thoughts on balance are bring back marksman arms, make uniques uncraftable but buff them a little again, allow MK3 and everything else to be researchable and craftable.

So. Revert the changes and effectively leave as is?

Hello, first I'm sorry. I am using a translator.
Regarding the balance of the robotic parts. I think in the last update, the penalties are too extreme, for example: the power arm, the strength goes up a lot, but the dexterity goes down 50%. Same case with the Leviatan Arm, which increases strength by 90% but reduces dexterity by 90%. I think that the percentages between strength and dexterity should not be so opposite, because the character has already physically trained that statistic, it doesn't make sense that the penalty between these two stats is so extreme. I hope you have understood my message.

Was the removal of the marksman arms intended? Just wondering, because the thiefs arm had an update in the bandits arm still remaining, while the steady arm was now just standalone.

Also, i like the idea of having the unique arms being prices only. But then there should be a way to craft arms that have a little bit less of a harsh penalty. Because as it is now (and was after the patch) the unique arms had no penalty at all, while the remaining craftable arms had like 75% reduction in multiple skills - i can't remember the exact numbers.

Also i feel like legs should be getting some love. Even in the pre patch state the legs are only mediocre. After the patch, for some of my characters i was simply pissed to find that i had their legs removed in the first place. The robotic ones were in no way better than the ones they had before with all the penalties. Except maybe for the stealth legs, but even that is debatable unless you absolutely need to have a character with 30 stealth suddenly go to 100.

It's kinda ridiculous when two regular skeleton arms give MUCH better overall stats than two swift arms, two power arms, or a mix of power and swift arms (even if everything is Masterwork grade). I get that there needs to be *some* balancing, but the absurd penalties make the custom arms next to worthless. 100 STR and 10 DEX might get you killed where 50 STR and 50 DEX would not.

And lol I'm not even going to go into how much of a joke the Leviathan series are. -90% penalties almost across the board PER ARM? Lol would my stats go into the negatives if I equip leviathans on both arms? I'd find out for myself but they're too expensive XD

Originally posted by muh_kuh_83:

Was the removal of the marksman arms intended? Just wondering, because the thiefs arm had an update in the bandits arm still remaining, while the steady arm was now just standalone.

Also, i like the idea of having the unique arms being prices only. But then there should be a way to craft arms that have a little bit less of a harsh penalty. Because as it is now (and was after the patch) the unique arms had no penalty at all, while the remaining craftable arms had like 75% reduction in multiple skills - i can't remember the exact numbers.

Also i feel like legs should be getting some love. Even in the pre patch state the legs are only mediocre. After the patch, for some of my characters i was simply pissed to find that i had their legs removed in the first place. The robotic ones were in no way better than the ones they had before with all the penalties. Except maybe for the stealth legs, but even that is debatable unless you absolutely need to have a character with 30 stealth suddenly go to 100.

Originally posted by phonon5891:

It's kinda ridiculous when two regular skeleton arms give MUCH better overall stats than two swift arms, two power arms, or a mix of power and swift arms (even if everything is Masterwork grade). I get that there needs to be *some* balancing, but the absurd penalties make the custom arms next to worthless. 100 STR and 10 DEX might get you killed where 50 STR and 50 DEX would not.

And lol I'm not even going to go into how much of a joke the Leviathan series are. -90% penalties almost across the board PER ARM? Lol would my stats go into the negatives if I equip leviathans on both arms? I'd find out for myself but they're too expensive XD

As stated the patch was scrapped and rolled back. It'll be reworked and some will still have heavy penalties but will be better balanced overall.

And phonon i would say its far from ridiculous that something meant to be specialized arms would see penalties in areas it isnt meant to excel in. Custom arms need a purpose and if that means harsh penalities so you aren't inclined to rely solely on one set, that w9uld make sense.

As for leviathan limbs, yes, thats the downside for having limbs that are full power and nothing else. Limbs that are meant to put you on the same playing field as a leviathan and as such able to punch a 50ton animal to death. Thats like comparing a cannon and a sniper rifle and complaining that you cant hit someone in the head, what does the head matter if you can destroy the entire area around the person.
With power like this, there is no way in the world you should be able to hold a katana or load a crossbow.
Also negative stats, short of medic/robotics, have 0 affect on the player character or even NPC'S.

Originally posted by Atlas:

And phonon i would say its far from ridiculous that something meant to be specialized arms would see penalties in areas it isnt meant to excel in. Custom arms need a purpose and if that means harsh penalities so you aren't inclined to rely solely on one set, that w9uld make sense.

As for leviathan limbs, yes, thats the downside for having limbs that are full power and nothing else. Limbs that are meant to put you on the same playing field as a leviathan and as such able to punch a 50ton animal to death. Thats like comparing a cannon and a sniper rifle and complaining that you cant hit someone in the head, what does the head matter if you can destroy the entire area around the person.
With power like this, there is no way in the world you should be able to hold a katana or load a crossbow.
Also negative stats, short of medic/robotics, have 0 affect on the player character or even NPC'S.

Penalties for specialized limbs in general? Not ridiculous.

-50% penalties for multiple skills in exchange for +50% in one thing? OMEGALUL

Seriously, if you equip a power arm on your left and a swift arm on your right, you get essentially zero benefit (the STR and DEX bonuses and penalties cancel) and -100% penalty on multiple other stats. If that's not ridiculous, then I don't know what is. Another example: combining a swift arm with a thief/bandit arm negate the entire purpose of the thief/bandit arm.

And no, the Leviathan set does NOT put you on the same playing field as a Leviathan. Not even close. Leviathans have HP and blood measured in the thousands. You get ~200ish. Leviathans can therefore tank with low DEX; the player still can't. It's also ridiculous because you *might* be able to punch a 50 ton giant animal to death, but that 100 lb ninja with 70 DEX would probably kill you.

Look, I get that you wanted to balance the limbs. But -50% penalties **that remain flat across grades** are just out there (not to mention -90%).

Finally, you did say that the changes have been reverted, but it looks like it hasn't propagated to me yet, since I'm still stuck with the nerfed limbs. Going to unsub and resub and see if that can fix it.

EDIT: cool, that fixed it.

Originally posted by ChadMan:

Please make a pre-patch build. Since you also nerfed both the vanilla limbs, and the mod limbs, it makes prosthetic feel useless, since the debuffs are insane. You can't stack strength because then your dexterity goes to ♥♥♥♥, and you attack at the speed of a snail. I enjoyed making super soliders and I didn't really care that it was "op." Sorry for complaining, I really have enjoyed your mod, so a pre-patch build would be awesome.

It was reverted. So you should be able to import or unsub and resub? and that would fix it.