Darkest Dungeon®

Darkest Dungeon®

Marvin Seo's Thrall Class Mod
Marvin Seo  [developer] 21 Oct, 2017 @ 12:13pm
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Showing 1-15 of 83 comments
Striclan 21 Oct, 2017 @ 8:24pm 
hi, hello, whatever, i'm suscribe to yor mods falconer, lamia and thrall just right now, they are awesome,the thing is that could you do a mod about big boss or the boss, or both, that would be awesome too.
GhostLiner 22 Oct, 2017 @ 12:03am 
Hi Marvin ! Congratulation on your third mod being out. It's awesome to see that much work put into class mods. What I really like about yours is that they fit inside Darkest Dungeon.

I'm here to post a peculiar suggestion. While 7 trinkets is a good amount of trinkets for a class, there might be a few ideas that you missed. There is a mod, called "Clair's Collection of Curiosity" made by Clair de Lune.

It's a very good mod that adds a lot of interesting trinkets. Right now it only has two classes but a big update around Vestal is coming and he plans to do them for each of the classes. She makes very interesting trinkets but can't do art by herself. You probably should try to contact her and see if you can work together. He might come up with very interesting ideas.



Also, if you take suggestion for your future classes, a class that is from the Courtyard, with the Crimson Curse and works kind of similarly would be something I'd love to see. Or something involving Eldritch. Those are obviously only suggestion. Honestly, your content really makes me happy. I can't wait to play with all the stuff you made.
FishOnTheInternetz 22 Oct, 2017 @ 12:09am 
I just did my first run with this very large man, and i put my report of my first experience with him into an imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/zfu0V

I had no prior knowledge about him and what he does.
This was a completely blind run.
Marvin Seo  [developer] 22 Oct, 2017 @ 1:06am 
Originally posted by FishOnTheInternetz:
I just did my first run with this very large man, and i put my report of my first experience with him into an imgur album: https://imgur.com/a/zfu0V

I had no prior knowledge about him and what he does.
This was a completely blind run.
Lol I had a good laugh reading through your report! I'm assessing the Thrall's current kit and deciding how I want to go about balancing his power as well as his weaknesses.
Let me compliment the fact that you released him as ridiculously overpowered as you did.

Because it's significantly easier to achieve balance by nerfing something OP instead of buffing something UP.

The Thrall's initial release is a full success.
Last edited by FishOnTheInternetz; 22 Oct, 2017 @ 1:15am
QueenNora 23 Oct, 2017 @ 2:22am 
I was thinking maybe his skills should give him stress, which will cause him to be afflicted if the team does not keep him in check. For example Savagery will give him 15 stress or if possible 5 stress for 3 turns.
Last edited by QueenNora; 23 Oct, 2017 @ 2:27am
minal0303 23 Oct, 2017 @ 3:57am 
Hey Marvin. I've always really liked your class mods, as they fit almost perfectly into the base game, both aesthetically and balance-wise. That being said, this is the first time that I was able to play your mod on release date, so I decided to leave a little feedback for you to consider.

I think it's fair to compare the Thrall to the Leper, since they share very similar characteristics, notably their high health, low accuracy, high damage, limited means of hitting the back row and lack of team utility. These characteristics make Leper godly in low level dungeons, and below-average in higher level dungeons. In short he's more or less of a noob trap.

The reason why I am telling you all this is because I think you have to be very cautious in taking feedbacks about Thrall, since knee-jerk reactions could be very wrong in his case. I do agree with others that Thrall feels like a way better Leper, and might even be a little overpowered compared to the vanilla classes. Still, I'm a noob myself, so I trust you on the ultimate decision on whether he should be nerfed or not, or even buffed.

If you ever do decide to nerf Thrall, however, it would be great if you don't just nerf his numbers. (Though I think health is a bit too high. How about bringing it down to Leper levels?) He needs more clear weaknesses. If you compare him to Leper he has way less weaknesses. Having less weaknesses is okay, since Leper is a little bit on the weak side, but as of now Thrall tends to do a lot of what Leper can't, while Thrall's weaknesses don't stand out that much.

Consider the following:
Leper's Weaknesses
1. Low accuracy - Same as Thrall. Can be compensated via trinkets and quirks.
2. Limited means of hitting back rows - Thrall's Tremors can hit back row, albeit randomly, while Leper has to clear corpses first. Intimidate is more of a debuff skill than an attack skill.
3. Lack of ways to deal with being shuffled. - Thrall has Trample to charge right back into the fight.
4. Lack of team utility - I'm not entirely sure this applies to Leper now that his Intimidate got reworked, but Thrall also has a stun and a Riposte skill, so I think Thrall doesn't have any less utility than Leper, at the very least.
5. Weak to bleed - Thrall has decent resist stats.

Thrall is worse than Leper at stress management and camping, but as for camping you're not forced to use Thrall's skills anyway. So the only thing that really stands out as Thrall's weakness is his stress management, but even this isn't highlighted that much. I think you need to double down on this concept of 'Strong body, Weak mind'.

Some suggestions:
1. Remove the damage buff on Ferocious state. It's reasonable that the Flagellant has a positive side to being Rapturous because his playstyle encourages taking damage and stress, but Ferocious is supposed to be an extreme penalty. So the damage buff seems a bit out of place, though I can understand it from a lore-perspective. Personally, I would love it if Ferocious Thrall was guaranteed to hit his allies every turn, but I can see how that could be too much.

2. Add stress penalties to his base stat or some of his skills. I've seen a lot of people suggest this, and I agree. This makes stress management a core part of his identity. "Take X stress per skill/turn" could turn out too similar to Abomination, so maybe "+X% stress taken" as his passive or penaty of certain skills could be a better alternative.

3. Make him take collateral stress damage from allies being stressed or damaged? I'm not sure how you could balance this, and even less sure on how to implement it, but I guess it would fit his "Strong body, Weak mind" concept?

Again, I think it comes down to your thoughts and decisions when it comes to balancing Thrall, and I trust you to do this excellently, if the Falconer and Lamia mods are any indications. Love your mods, and keep up the good work!
Personally, i would empathize his balancing to be an HP-wall but cut some of the base-damage over worsing his vulnarbility to stress.
Personally, I don't find him any more powerful than the Leper. He has terrible camping skills, and he has awful accuracy problems - even worse than the aforementioned class.

Sure, he can do more than the leper can, but it comes at the cost of being far more unpredictable with his affliction lashing out at teammates, and his abysmal accuracy. You can somewhat remedy this problem with trinkets... but even then, he's terribly unreliable at anything beyond apprentice level missions. Yes, even more unreliable than a leper.
Originally posted by Dingus:
Personally, I don't find him any more powerful than the Leper. He has terrible camping skills, and he has awful accuracy problems - even worse than the aforementioned class.

Sure, he can do more than the leper can, but it comes at the cost of being far more unpredictable with his affliction lashing out at teammates, and his abysmal accuracy. You can somewhat remedy this problem with trinkets... but even then, he's terribly unreliable at anything beyond apprentice level missions. Yes, even more unreliable than a leper.
Regarding his camping skills, Thrall X Flagellant is a better lovestory than Twilight.
Mr.Dirkins 26 Oct, 2017 @ 3:56am 
Hey, so I was digging in the localization files, and I noticed one of the 'afflicted' barks is labelled as thrallthrallferocious.

DANG good class, btw. Im trying to figure out how to do one myself.
Marvin Seo  [developer] 26 Oct, 2017 @ 4:06am 
Originally posted by Mr.Dirkins:
Hey, so I was digging in the localization files, and I noticed one of the 'afflicted' barks is labelled as thrallthrallferocious.

DANG good class, btw. Im trying to figure out how to do one myself.
Thanks for letting me know. I've fixed the typo and I'm glad that you like the class :)
skkkkrraaaaaa 27 Oct, 2017 @ 5:41pm 
I ve got the thrall to a max level of 6 plus his +25 stun res.collar and the uncommon stun amulet +20 stun res. to a max of 165 stun res. which equals the same chance his headbutt attack (lvl 5) does.
The bug ive been experiencing so far is, that even if the values are equal, so there is no chance of stunning himself, he oftenly STILL stuns himself.
Thx for help :D
Marvin Seo  [developer] 27 Oct, 2017 @ 11:44pm 
Originally posted by ( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉):
I ve got the thrall to a max level of 6 plus his +25 stun res.collar and the uncommon stun amulet +20 stun res. to a max of 165 stun res. which equals the same chance his headbutt attack (lvl 5) does.
The bug ive been experiencing so far is, that even if the values are equal, so there is no chance of stunning himself, he oftenly STILL stuns himself.
Thx for help :D
The bonus Stun Skill Chance from the Stun Amulet also increases the Thrall's self Stun Chance, so after everything is added together, you actually have a 20% of the Thrall stunning himself :)
skkkkrraaaaaa 28 Oct, 2017 @ 6:28pm 
Originally posted by Marvin Seo:
Originally posted by ( ͡◉ ͜ʖ ͡◉):
I ve got the thrall to a max level of 6 plus his +25 stun res.collar and the uncommon stun amulet +20 stun res. to a max of 165 stun res. which equals the same chance his headbutt attack (lvl 5) does.
The bug ive been experiencing so far is, that even if the values are equal, so there is no chance of stunning himself, he oftenly STILL stuns himself.
Thx for help :D
The bonus Stun Skill Chance from the Stun Amulet also increases the Thrall's self Stun Chance, so after everything is added together, you actually have a 20% of the Thrall stunning himself :)
oh thx :D
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