Team Fortress 2

Team Fortress 2

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MvM: a statistical and comprehensive guide to max potential DPS
By 专注的魅力弹道的实力辅瞄的细腻游龙的奥义
Some say it's not what you use, but how you use it.
I say it's knowing what to use, use it right, and know why you use it.

Follow me down the rabbit hole as I unveil the potentials of dps weapons (at least most of them).
   
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Intro
Quoting my Beggar's Bazooka guide - "MvM is a game about damage. In fact, compared to PvP, which is objective-oriented, MvM stresses far more on damage output: if you deal enough damage to kill all the robots, you win."

After the (more or less) success of my last guide on beggar’s bazooka, I’ve decided to make a more detailed analysis of the most important aspect in MvM, damage. Or to be precise, the maximum potential dps that common damage weapons can deal to a single target consistently without inflicting self damage.
They represent the limits to the damage capability of weapons, and are not necessarily comparable to actual damage numbers in-game (although they remain mostly true).

This guide is intended towards experienced MvM players with decent amounts of knowledge about weapons and upgrades.

Warning :(again) expect even more numbers. If you have a natural hatred towards math, logic, or any form of reasoning, please close this guide and remind yourself never to open it again.
Calculating DPS
The calculation of single target dps is rather straightforward. It’s (amount of damage)/ (time required to deal damage).
In the case of the tests that we’ll be conducting throughout this guide, it will be (damage per shot)*(firing rate).
Firing rate
Inheriting the method from my previous guide, I’ll compare similar weapons/ same weapon with different upgrades to hand out a more direct idea of the difference in firing rates.

Note that the timers use frames instead of centiseconds, so 30:30 would be 30.5 seconds.

Combining with the table from my last guide, here're the results of the tests, ammo consumed, and the calculated firing rate.
Weapon-upgrades
Time
Ammo consumed
Firing Rate (shots/s)
Scattergun-maxed
21:36
36
1.67
Force-A-Nature-maxed
20:10
36
1.78
Soda Popper-maxed
18:07
36
1.99
Shortstop-maxed
12:25
36
2.9
RL-maxed
42:30
50
1.18
Beggar’s-maxed, tap fire
24:07
50
2.07
Flamethrower(s)
24:12
300
22
Pipes-maxed
32:15
50
1.55
Stickies-maxed
34:49
50
1.44
Minigun-no upgrades
31:40
300
9.47
Minigun-1,2 firing speed
27:14
300
11
Minigun-3 firing speed
22:42
300
13.19
Minigun-4 firing speed
18:12
300
16.48
Lvl-3 sentry-no upgrades
27:06
200
7.38
Lvl-3 sentry-1 firing speed
22:36
200
8.85
Lvl-3 sentry-2,3 firing speed / wrangled+no upgrades
18:08
200
11.05
Lvl-3 sentry-no upgrades+crit canteen
18:08
200
11.05
Lvl-3 sentry-wrangled+1,2,3 firing speed / wrangled+crit canteen
9:07
200
21.98
Normal Melees
24:32
50
2.04
Scout Melees
15:09
50
3.3
Jag
20:59
50
2.38
Air Strike-max reload
38:30
50
1.30
Air Strike-max reload+firing
30:48
50
1.62
Air Strike-maxed
29:45
50
1.68
Air Strike-maxed+base jumper
28:36
50
1.75
Widowmaker
18:42
50
2.67
Panic attack-1 hp
12:34
50
3.98
Projectile shield
5:51
386
65.98
Bison
32:45
50
1.53
Heatmaker-focus
30:02
50
1.67
Huntsman-no draw
42:58
50
1.16
Huntsman-fully drawn
1:05:15
50
0.77

A lot of these numbers will need further explanation so I’ll do a brief analysis on individual classes.

General
  • For clip based weapons, I started off with no ammo in clip, in order to represent average dps.
  • Tap fire weapons (beggar's, stickies, huntsman with 0 draw) tests are done with a rapid tap script.
  • The panic attack doesn't benefit from tap firing as the beggar's does.
  • The tests were done by spawning a puppet bot on a local server, then giving it different cheats depending on the tests.

Scout
  • As pointed out by user 'itsgalf', not firing off an entire clip gives a lot of scout primaries a disadvantage in terms of dps. Hence I used the time required to fire off 36 shots (instead of 50 in the video), since 36 is a multiple of 18 and 6. The difference is not too significant, and the ultimate conclusions are the same.

Soldier
  • The Air Strike shows a 37%-48% increase in firing rate, but at a cost of higher vulnerability (and health from rocket jumping).
  • The base jumper barely increases average firing rate. As does clip size upgrades. However the latter does benefit burst damage capability, but we won't cover that in this guide. Reload & firing speed are still the essentials for this weapon.

Pyro
  • The firing speed varies slightly from the stats given by the wiki. This could be caused by errors from my timer or the source engine itself, but the difference is negligible. However, since its damage isn’t based on ammo consumed, the result from the firing speed test is useless.
  • After watching the video for pyro damage in slow-motion, the flamethrower seems to deal damage 22 times per second (disregarding afterburn). This also matches closely to the stats on the wiki, so I will use this number later on.

Heavy
  • The 2nd firing speed upgrade does nothing, and the amount of firing speed boost is nowhere close to what the upgrades claim to be.

Engineer
    Ok, this class is a mess
  • Without the wrangler, the 1st upgrade in firing boosts it to ~120% of original, while the 2nd brings it to 150%. The 3rd does nothing.
  • With the wrangler, the 1st firing speed upgrade and the wrangler boosts it to 300%. The 2nd/ 3rd firing speed does nothing. Nada. Nichts.
  • Due to errors in the timers, some of the results were close but not identical. For the sake of simplification, I took the mean average of those numbers.
  • Crit canteen seems to have the same effect as maxing out firing speed. The test for an upgraded sentry with crit canteens wasn't done, but the numbers should be easy to come up with based on other tests.

Medic
  • The time in the video is incorrect, so I counted the time manually.
  • The shield's firing rate seems to match the server's tick rate (66/s)
Damage per shot
This is the second element in dps calculation. As previously mentioned, for normal damage, due to damage ramp-up, we’ll test the maximum possible damage without inflicting self damage. In addition, damage spread and random crits are turned off.
We’ll also test crit damage, but not mini-crits, since mini-crits damage is simply normal damage multiplied by 1.35, even with damage ramp-up, while full crits neglects damage ramp-up altogether.
Weapon
Bots
Tanks
Crits
Normal Melees
65
65
195
Demo Swords
130
130
390
Scout Melees
35
35
105
Shotguns
90
88
180
Scattergun/ Soda popper
209
199
360
FaN
226
215
389
Shortstop
143
128
288
RL/ Beggar’s
218
208
540
Air Strike
153
153
459
Bison
60
120
180(370 on tank)
Flamethrower
14
13
41
Phlog
12
11
37
Pipes
180
180
540
Stickies
226
225
620
Minigun
54
12
108(27 on tank)
Brass Beast
65
15
130(32 on tank)
Lvl-3 Sentry
19
18
N/A
Jag
49
49
146
Rescue Ranger
60
58
120
Projectile Shield
2
2
N/A
Heatmaker (no charge)
80 (Explosive headshots: 190)
100
300
Huntsman (no draw)
55
55
166
Huntsman (fully drawn)
190
190
570
Backstabs
938
40
N/A

Further notes:
General
  • Crit damage is the same on bots and tanks, with the exception of heavy, who has a 75% damage penalty.
  • You may have noticed that for most weapons, tank damage is slightly lower than bot damage. This is due to weapons reaching a lower ramp-up on tank (bigger model size).
  • The Source engine adds damage after rounding. For instance, the flamethrower actually deals 13.64 damage per hit, which rounds up to 14, and 10 hits with the flamethrower deals an accumulated 140 damage instead of 136.

Soldier
  • It's impossible to stay in close range with the Air Strike while rocket jumping. Hence I'm using its base damage.
  • The bison's damage for each shot is affected by the number of times the projectile hits the target. The tank has a bigger hitbox than bots, hence more damage. Still, the bison's tank damage is fairly inconsistent, but 120 regular & 370 crit damage are the numbers that showed up the most.

Demo
  • Got lazy and used the wrong clip for bot damage in the video. It's 226 at close range.
  • Detonating stickies that are planted for longer periods of time seems to neglect damage falloff.
  • Stickies beneath tanks only do ~70% full damage, while stickies on the sides do full damage.
Engineer
  • The sentry gun, despite stated otherwise on the wiki, is still affected by damage ramp-up even within its scan range. A level-3 reaches a maximum of 19 at point blank and 16 at the edge of its scan range.
  • Sentry rocket damage is not included.

Medic
  • With minicrits, the projectile shield does 3 damage per hit on bots and 2 on tanks.

Sniper
  • Since charge time and the rifle's own damage per shot doesn't affect explosive headshot damage, and the majority of sniper's damage come from EH, it should be clear that rapid quickscopes do far more damage over time on groups compared to fully charged shots.
  • Explosive headshots do flat 190 damage and isn't affected by splash modifier, charge amount, damage per shot, crits, or Fists of Steel's resistance. They can still be minicrit boosted and deal 256.
  • Huntsman's damage with 0 draw seems to be inconsistent. I wasn't using a rapid tap script there so I'll use the lowest number that showed up.

Spy
  • Backstab damage isn't affected by the battalion's backup.
The real deal: maximum single target dps
Now that we have the two factors needed for the calculation, firing rate and damage per shot, we can proceed into the number that matters: the multiplication of the two.

Keep in mind that the following numbers maybe slightly differ from actual stats in-game due to rounding and testing errors, and only represent the max potential of a weapon, while in-game results can be influenced by a lot of other factors (bullet spread, distance, projectile deviation, running for ammo, “indirect” hit (stickies), not hitting anything, etc.).

Also, we’ll only use stats from maxed out weapons.
(DPS =Damage*Firing Rate)
Weapon
Bots
Tanks
Crits
Normal Melees
133
133
398
Demo Swords
265
265
796
Scout Melees
116
116
347
Panic Attack (1 hp)
358(yes)
350
716
Scattergun
349
332
601
Soda popper
416
396
716
FaN
402
383
692
Shortstop
415
371
835
Beggar’s
451
431
1118
RL
257
245
637
Air Strike
268
268
803
Righteous Bison
92
184
275(566 on tank)
Flamethrower
308
286
902
Phlog
264
242
814
Pipes
279
279
837
Stickies
325
324
893
Minigun
890
198
1780 (445 on tank)
Brass Beast
1071
247
2142 (527 on tank)
Lvl-3 Sentry
210
199
N/A
Wrangled Lvl-3
418
396
N/A
Jag
117
117
347
Widowmaker
240
235
481
Projectile Shield
132
132
N/A
Hitman's Heatmaker (headshot)
500
167
N/A
Hitman's Heatmaker (explosive headshot)
317
N/A
N/A
Huntsman (fully drawn)
146
146
439
Backstabs
1914
81
N/A

And of course, the widely debated myth of the best tank buster combo:
Soda Popper + maxed crit-a-cola
435
Beggar’s soldier using maxed buff banner (deployed 83% of the time)
485 (420 w/o ramp-up)
Phlog pyro (w+m1+m2)
425
Panic attack (at 1hp)
350
Bushwacka + maxed buff banner (deployed 83% of the time)
354
Demoknight
265
  • These are based on the assumption that there are no robots nearby. IF there are, the phlog's and demoknight's tank damage skyrockets, and without crit canteens or a medic, can bury every other weapon under 9 feet of dirt and tank rubble, except for one texan.
  • Engi vs tanks will be discussed later.
To sum this up with a more concise, more intuitive chart:
How useful is this chart, and how should I (the one reading) use it?
As I've previously mention twice, the chart (and numbers) only represent the max potential of a weapon. While for weapons of the same class (scattergun & sodapopper), or weapons for similar classes (Beggar's vs pipes), the chart can roughly quantify the difference between them, different weapon/ class can lead to varying playstyles, and hence very different usage of the weapon's potential.

Take heavy vs demo for instance.
1. Resistance (tankiness)
Heavy is a tank class, and deals the most damage when the enemy is right in his face. He doesn't mind drawing aggro at all, and in fact, should do so. He can make a lot of use out of resistance upgrades, which can also boost his damage besides his minigun upgrade, often times far more than the latter.

Demo is not a tank class. It makes little to no difference if the enemy is in his face or not, so having resistance doesn't benefit him in the slightest apart from survival and he should never try to draw aggro.

2. Wave composition and map geometry
Heavy is a class that relies on close range damage. Anything farther than say, mid-range, can heavily (heh) gimp his damage. Also, the minigun deals continuous damage over time, so streams of robots that flow steadily can make his damage much higher.

Demo, on the other hand, doesn't need to be at the crime scene to kill. He is also great at burst damage, which means a demo would much prefer a tight pack of robots coming in short bursts instead of a never ending stream.

The dps chart (and numbers) gives out a good representation of average damage, which illustrates weapons' abilities against continuous streams much better than packs.
This should explain why heavy (and beggar's soldier), with the higher dps, can do so much more on mannslaughter, where both the map and the waves forces the robots into streams, while demo can carry so hard on bigrock and mannhattan, where the team just spawncamps for half an hour.

Meanwhile for beggar's soldier vs pipe demo:
The two subclasses inherit very similar playstyles, but the beggar's soldier also have incredible support utilities. And this is where the dps chart comes in and say soldier is the wiser choice.

My other guide gives a more in-depth analyses on this subject:
http://steamproxy.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=462408278
Bonus: Engi vs. Tanks
As the game progresses, the engi's role as a damage class becomes far less significant than support. Additionally, his essential upgrades for his buildings and wrench nearly top off at roughly 3k credits. Despite that, engi is still one of the highest tank-damaging classes even in final waves, and the player can be very creative when it comes to dealing with them, instead of crouching behind your sentry and asking your oblivious gibusvision pyro who maxed out his fireaxe. Since tanks do not fight back and are relatively slow, they become much easier targets for engies with other weapons in their arsenal.

The costs in the following section represents the extra cost after getting the essential upgrades.

Wrangled lvl-3
DPS: ~350
Cost: 0
This seems pretty obvious. A wrangled sentry outputs a very impressive 396 dps and can keep up with other high dps weapons. However, when wrangled, a maxed out sentry will chew through its ammo in 9 seconds, while it takes up to 3 seconds to refill. A tip is to quickly pick up then put down the sentry after its ammo is depleted to let it keep firing after switching off the wrangler. The sentry's average dps with this method is ~350.
Downside: Very metal consuming. Also, since the sentry is wrangled, you won't be able to guard the bomb at all.

Wrenches + lvl-3
DPS: ~316-492
Cost: 0
Since your most likely be upgrading your wrench's swing speed, why not use it for damage as well? Given melee weapons' high random crit chance in PvP (up to 60%), the stock wrench + sentry combo can do up to 492 dps on tanks. Then again, I haven't paid any attention to random crits in MvM, and I'm not sure if it uses the same mechanics. The combo can do at least 316 dps with the jag and no random crits.
Downside: None

Panic Attack + lvl-3
DPS: ~430-549, 1116(crit canteen)
Cost: 1150~2700
The panic attack is an often overlooked shotgun in MvM, and TF2 in general. After all, who wants to stay at low health? Unless... you're fighting a tank.
At 1 hp, the panic attack can drop a ridiculous 350 tank dps by just holding down mouse1. And since the tank never fights back, this strategy is highly viable. Minicrits boost the combo's dps to 741, higher than every other weapon w/o crits, and you can even pop a crit canteen (oh the meta), and reach an absolute unlawful 1116 tank dps with the combo. Keep in mind that a crit beggar's do 1118 dps, and due to possible calculation errors, who know if this combo has the actual highest tank damage in all of MvM?
Quite conveniently, you can use the wrangler's to damage yourself to very low hp.
Even without clip size upgrade, its dps is still a staggering 329, and at this point it costs a mere 1150 credits. With crit canteens, you can reach 1070 tank dps with theoretically just 700+1150=1850 credits! No other class in MvM can even come near this number.
At full hp and with no clip size upgrade, its dps is still a very impressive 231. Also, despite its high firing rate, the player can still have full ammo with an medium ammo pack if he has max ammo cap.
As ridiculous as using a crit canteen as an engi sounds, I hope you see where I'm getting with this. The panic attack deals a phenomenon amount of point blank damage, can fully utilise crits, and costs literally negligible amount of credits to upgrade.
The panic attack can even be a choice for fat scouts, should you even wish to do a 5-heavy rush, but that's for a totally different topic.
Downside: Giving up the rescue ranger can cripple your versatility as an engi.

Frontier Justice + lvl-3
DPS: ~479-500
Cost: 1150~2700
The frontier justice doesn't require the player at low hp to be fully effective, but it is a lot more cumbersome to use due to the crit mechanism. Still, it can theoretically store up to 70 (35*2) crits without rebuilding, and you can stay near your dispenser for ammo, since you can have full hp, and crits have no drop-off. It deals 300 dps with full size, and 280 w/o.
Downside: Same as above; crit canteens are mostly useless.

Widowmaker + lvl-3
DPS: ~439
Cost: 400
Despite being very economically friendly, the widowmaker cannot get metal back from tanks, and since even dispensers and full ammo packs wont replenish your metal fast enough, it is mostly unviable for this case. It's similar to the bison in the sense that its upgrades are cheap, but it doesn't achieve much with them. Still you can use it for a quick burst of damage.
Downside: Very metal consuming; giving up the rescue ranger.
31 Comments
In theory yes. And since the widowmaker got buffed since who-knows-when and returns metal from tanks, imo it out classes every other engi primary if you want to farm damage on engi.

Although the only scenario where engi's dps would even be relevant (other than tank busting) is if you're trying to beat a mission with 3-4 players. He's basically a miniature heavy (if you upgrade his durability) with a ton of utilities.
AppleTank 6 Dec, 2019 @ 6:00pm 
does the panic attack rework kill its damage potential?
itsgalf 26 Apr, 2015 @ 5:23am 
Righteous Bison is shit DPS. The only thing going for it is penetration. Clearly inferior to Beggars
lbtmy gmg 25 Apr, 2015 @ 4:39pm 
Try to BEGIN testing the DPS max for the Righteous bison.
Come at me, I only use the Righteous Bison, and check out what your math says on this. You cannot come at me now.
@Reptar
The ScoRes fires slightly slower than stock when maxed out, and it's not a spam weapon. The LnL and DH are strictly downgrades.
Bamse 25 Apr, 2015 @ 2:04pm 
Wat?
Mountain Dew Baja Blyat 24 Apr, 2015 @ 5:15am 
Scottish Resistance? Loch-n-Load? Direct Hit?
Recoome 23 Apr, 2015 @ 6:53pm 
WHAT DA HALLLLLLL
Angel 23 Apr, 2015 @ 7:39am 
my brains hurts
kingzzz 22 Apr, 2015 @ 10:51am 
Word for "not tankiness" is squishy.