PAYDAY 2

PAYDAY 2

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The Lime's Guide to Running Suit Only
By The Lime ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Are you looking to ramp up the pace of your Payday playstyle? Have you ever considered running around Watchdogs in a suit? You never know, it could be a lot easier than you think. With the right skills and weapons, running suit only could be within your near future!
   
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The Lime's Guide to Running Suit Only: A fruity guide on looking good while robbing people
Hello everyone, The Lime here, or as many of you know me: the crazy V-100 running around in a suit, racking up hundreds of kills.
Many people have asked me how it is I manage to use a suit on loud missions and outperform most players, so I figured I’d make a guide.
I know there are probably other similar guides out there, but I’d like to express my take on the subject.
The Basics
What you will need to recreate my build:
  1. Be level 100
  2. Obtain at least infamy level 3, with points spent in Mastermind and Enforcer (I recommend skipping out on Iron Man Ace if you have not)
  3. Gage Sniper Pack DLC and/or Gage Assault Pack DLC (not required but highly recommended)
  4. Gage mod courier DLC (only one mod used, not a necessity)
  5. Enough spending cash and/or modifications for the weapons listed below
The Skills
A link to my current skills setup [updated for Fugitive skills]: http://pd2skills.com/#/v3/mSNLhJECDa:eqokLHIEfDa:ghECda:fEGCa:ibcdea:pR8::

Please treat this as a template and tailor the skills to your needs, I will list required skills for this build below

Required skills:
  • Sprinter ace - Speed, dodge, stamina regen (this skill brings your total dodge while sprinting to 49%, which is one of the biggest reasons this build works)

  • Endurance ace - You need to be sprinting all the time. Brings your total stamina to 55.

  • Shotgun impact ace, Shotgun CQB basic - Pretty self explanatory since you will be using the Locomotive most of the time

  • Stun Resistance Ace - For most builds this is a recommended skill, for this build it is a necessity. Since you don’t have any armor to spare, the difference in time spent flashed is the difference between life and death for you. In the case that you get flashbanged, start sprinting in the opposite direction of cops, or try to hug a wall. The worst thing you can do with this build is stand still, so get into the habit of using your dodge as a secondary line of defense.

  • Combat Doctor Ace - Medic bags are your lifeline, as you depend on physical health far more than normal players do. Don’t feel bad about using a doctor bag charge if you have plenty left. Think of it this way: Which would be worse for your team, using up a few charges of meds, or you dieing far away from your team and them all go down trying to save you? Use them more sparingly if you know someone on your team has inspire. If not, you are probably the only one keeping your team together and all hell will likely break loose if you go into custody.

  • Kilmer Ace - This is the single skill that will keep you in the fight nonstop. I can not express in words how underappreciated this skills is. Once you use kilmer, you won’t go back. Get into the habit of sprint reloading when running for cover or crossing large distances. You always want a full clip to deal with whatever threat may be lurking around the corner.

  • Inspire Ace - Probably the most useful skill in the game for loud heists. You will be doing most or all of the reviving in your party, as you have the ability to cross large distances quickly and run past mobs of enemies and threats that would normally take you down. Always remember to shout through cover whenever you can with this build, shout through ceilings, shout through floors, shout through walls, just keep yourself out of the line of fire, and deal with enemies afterwards.

  • Fully Loaded basic - [As of the last update, due to a scripting conflict, Fully Loaded Ace is negated due to "Walk In Closet" perk in all perk decks of 135% ammo pickup rate, avoid Ace version]
    You’ll be shooting, a lot. This brings the Locomotive’s total ammo to 38, and means you’ll be picking up 1-3 rounds per ammo drop. Considering you’ll be one-shotting pretty much everything in sight, this gives you a very large margin of error when taking shots and keeps you in the fight when it’s too dangerous to pick up ammo.

  • Overkill - I will go into depth as to why you should use overkill outside of deathwish missions later.

Recommended Skills:
  • Combat Medic - I view any build with inspire but not combat medic a ♥♥♥♥ move. You’ll be doing most of the reviving, and it saves med charges for you in the long term.

  • Dominator Basic - In the case that a teammate goes into custody this is an essential skill. You’d also be squandering the t6 bonus of 200% intimidation by not picking up this skill.

  • Spotter Basic - The extra 15% damage means marked tasers can be killed in one head shot, when not enough enemies are around to activate underdog.

  • Underdog Basic - Same reason as Spotter, but when you don’t have time to mark a taser, or other cops are in the way.

  • Die Hard Ace - Your armor will be depleted very often, that extra .3 of a second makes quite the difference in the long run.

  • Shinobi Basic - In the occasion that you run out of stamina, you want to be able to move as fast as possible to cover or to an objective.

  • Iron Man Ace - This build is usable without this skill, but it gives you the ability to deal more DPS and means you retain the extra 25% dodge at all times. The shield melee ability is a good backup when your GL40 or .50 cal is unloaded, or your main way to deal with shields if you do not have any DLC.

  • Fast Hands Ace - Fast, fast, fast, you do things fast. Every build should have fast hands, but it isn’t a 100% necessary skill.

Preference Skills: (these skills can be easily interchanged with your own preference, and are not a necessity for this build)
  • Leadership Ace - Considering none of the weapons you will be using are affected by stability increases (other than the AMR) you can drop this for another skill (such as cable guy). However on the rare occasion that I do use assault rifles, I can’t go without leadership.

  • Dominator Ace - Basic version is very helpful, but the ace version is not as much. The 200% intimidation increase from t6 mastermind is usually enough for whatever you need, but every little bit helps.

  • Pumping Iron Basic - The only reason I have this skill is to melee guards and get them down to 8 health, for easy intimidation.

  • Tough Guy Basic - I had to use one point somewhere and Oppressor and Bullet Storm didn’t appeal to me.

  • Chameleon Basic - This is just to mark guards and cameras when pseudo-stealthing. Mostly to point out to teammates so they don’t walk under a camera and get instantly detected.

  • Cat Burglar Basic - Swap out Chameleon Basic for this on loud-only missions, or just in general. Helps you avoid dieing from heights when you need to avoid enemies, and saves some armor after the fall so you don't take damage from cops right after.
The Weapons
Secondary:

Locomotive 12G Shotgun
With the right skills, the locomotive becomes the most reliable secondary weapon in the game, and arguably the best weapon in the game period.
This is the weapon you will be using to kill 70-80% of enemies, and is not a hard weapon to master once practiced with.

Modifications:
  • Ammunition: Stock (00 buck)
  • Barrel extension: Shark Teeth Nozzle (this brings the total damage with shotgun impact and t5 enforcer bonus to 105 - just enough to one shot headshot all normal cops w/o any bonus damage from situational skills)
  • Gadget: Assault light or none
  • Sight: None
  • Grip: Rubber Grip/Pro grip, or Straight grip (Play around with both, some people prefer 4 accuracy, while others prefer 6)
  • Stock: None or standard stock
  • Extended mag/upper receiver: Both extended mag and shell rack
Notes:
  • Sights used with all shotguns will display above the intended target and is not recommended. I view sights as more of a hinderance than helpful.
  • All stocks other than the standard stock change the viewmodel when aiming down sights and remove the sight post. The stability gained from stock is near pointless for a weapon with a rate of fire as low as 160.
  • If using the Locomotive in combination with the GL40, I recommend no stock or gadget, and possibly even straight grip for 19 / 9 concealment, respectively. This makes pseudo-stealth very feasible, and is an added bonus.


Primary:

GL40 Grenade Launcher
Virtually the perfect compliment to this build, the GL40 is the only primary I use currently, and for good reason.
It rivals the .50 cal in terms of taking down bulldozers and shields, with some added benefits I will discuss later.

Modifications:
  • Barrel: Pirate Barrel
  • Stock: Sawed-off Stock

Notes:
I choose to use both concealment increasing mods for the GL40 for one simple reason: why not? There is virtually no downside to using both mods: you lose some stability and accuracy, and the ability to use the flip up sight. The accuracy doesn’t seem to be affected much, if at all, the stability is pointless because of the one round “clip,” and I never found the flip up sight useful. If you really want to keep the flip up sight, you can leave the stock barrel, but I personally find it more view-obstructing than helpful.


Thanatos .50 cal
A suitable alternative to the GL40 if you only have the Sniper DLC, but lacking in a few areas.

Modifications:
Barrel: Tank Buster Barrel or Suppressed Barrel (Take your pick: increased threat or decreased visual recoil)
Gadget: Any
Grip: Pro Grip/Rubber Grip
Sight: Any (Although I recommend the Theia Magnified Scope, even at close range, for automatically marking shields through the physical barrier, making it easier to hit on target)


AMR-16
Use this if you don’t have any of the DLC’s. The high rate of fire is good for taking down bulldozers, and making quick work of large mobs of cops, to pick up ammo for the Locomotive.

Modifications:
  • Barrel: Long Barrel
  • Barrel Extension: Fire Breather Nozzle
  • Custom: Auto Fire
  • Foregrip: Tactical Handguard
  • Gadget: Any
  • Grip: Pro Grip/Rubber Grip
  • Magazine: Milspec Mag.
  • Stock: War Torn Stock
  • Upper Receiver: Exotique Receiver


GL40 vs Thanatos .50 cal:
  • In general, the .50 cal only excelles over the GL40 in three areas: speed of bulldozer kills, long range shield kills, and sniper kills.
  • However, the GL40 is generally a “safer” choice than the .50 cal. While the .50 cal does take out bulldozers in around 3 seconds, compared to the GL40’s 5-6 seconds, (2 grenades removes his facemask completely, one locomotive headshot at close-medium range will take him down) the GL40 both stuns the bulldozer for the entire period, and kills everything around it. The .50 cal leaves you very open to counter attacks from swarming standard cops, considering bulldozers rarely travel alone.
  • The GL40 also excels in holding down chokepoints, unrivaled by any weapon in the game.
    Considering how the GL40 also excels in getting collateral kills, it is also one of the best weapons to collect ammo when your Locomotive is running low.
  • The main problem with the GL40 is snipers. Snipers are the one enemy you can not deal with, and can be considerably deadly when running suit only. So cover must be used wisely, and communicating to your team when you are pinned down by sniper fire is key.

Melee:
If using Iron Man Ace: Weapon Butt
The extra time after swinging any other melee makes meleeing shields much more difficult. Considering this is the primary reason to use your melee with this build: don’t make it harder on yourself.
If not using Iron Man Ace: Weapon Butt recommended - not required
The extra time after swinging prevents you from sprinting and limits your dodge. This leaves you much more open to counter attacks and almost always ends up taking some of your health.
Why I use the skill Overkill on non-Deathwish missions
In the early stages of using this build, I didn’t use Overkill, however I feel that these benefits far outweigh the cost of 4 skill points:
  • One shot-bodyshotting greens - when you’re swarmed with 4 greens and the difference to kill them all is 4 or less barely aimed shots or 8… It makes a world of difference. Getting multiple collaterals with the Locomotive on greens is so much easier and safer for you, in terms of potential health loss.
  • One shot headshotting cloakers - I can’t remember the last time a cloaker kicked me down, honestly. I treat cloakers as a far less threat than tasers now simply because it's just as easy to kill a cloaker as a tan cop.
  • One shot headshotting tasers (under the right circumstances) - If you haven’t gotten it by now, this build is about killing stuff in one shot, before they are able to shoot you (or in this case taze you). Overkill combined with the 15% bonus damage from spotter basic or Underdog basic will result in a one shot headshot.
  • One shot bodyshotting tans (under the right circumstances) - Tan cops, for the most part have bullet-proof body armor. However at the right angle, and with underdog active, you can one shot bodyshot a tan. Note that I have only seen this happen with shotguns, likely because of the spread and multiple pellets per shot.
Death Wish changes
Note that I have not played nearly enough loud Death Wish missions to know if running suit only is a valid option, but if you want to give it a shot here's what you'll need and what you should avoid:

My Death Wish build while using Locomotive
http://www.pd2skills.info/profile/v-100-1-7-1/#/profile/the-limes-dw-build-loco/

Required skills (for Locomotive)
  • Everything listed above, with two exceptions:

  • Berserker ace - When downed, you will be revived with 10% health. This means pretty much all the time after being revived you will have berserker ace active. This, in combination with Overkill will allow you to one shot headshot tans cops (which require 272 damage, compared to Overkill and below's 100), and everything below them.

My Death Wish build while using The Judge
http://www.pd2skills.info/profile/v-100-1-7-1/#/profile/the-limes-dw-build-judge/

Required skills (for The Judge)
  • Everything listed above, with one exception (below)

Recommended skills:
  • Cat Burglar (basic, or ace if you have enough) - Falling from any damage-inducing height after being downed will instantly kill you without this skill. People wishing to squeeze more damage out of berserker ace can intentionally fall from heights to decrease their health slightly (cat burglar basic).
Skills to avoid (both Locomotive and The Judge)
  • Combat medic - The extra 30% revive health (10% vs 13%) is both a waste of skill points in Death Wish and a hindrance to your team. This decreases the damage your team with Berserker Ace will deal, with no real benefit.

Locomotive vs The Judge
I wouldn't recommend using The Judge outside of DW, but compared to the loco is does exceed in most areas.
The Judge does the same work as the loco, but with 12 less skill points. However, the main drawback is the decreased ammo total, (25 to 38), smaller clip, and is easier to use up ammo due to the higher ROF. If you choose to use the judge for Death Wish missions, just be wary of your ammo consumption, especially considering you won't be carrying ammo bags.

Notes:
If you decide that the suit isn't a good option for you on Death Wish, my builds include all the necessary skills to be effective with armor anyways. If you play with a regular team that has Inspire, and want to go up the technician tree for Bulletproof instead of Inspire, that's a valid option also. However, the ICTV is generally enough to get the job done, and you still have inspire. If you can't stand the drastic speed decrease, like myself, you could spend some more points in the ghost tree for the t4 armor speed bonus, at the cost of Iron Man ace.
Here's my setup The Judge that includes Inspire, Iron Man basic, and t4 ghost:
http://www.pd2skills.info/profile/v-100-1-7-1/#/profile/the-limes-dw-build-t4-ghost/
Common Questions
Q: Why not wear the Lightweight Ballistic Vest?
A:This build can still be used with the LBV, however I have found the most success with the suit. I feel that the LBV is a crutch for this playstyle, and when I did use it with this build I found I died much more often. I believe the extra bit of speed from the suit is the key to getting to cover just a bit faster and saving health in the long run. If you’ve never played with light/no armor you might want to start with the LBV to get used to the armor level, getting to cover, etc.

Q: Why not get the t4 Technician headshot bonus?
A: The headshot bonus is basically nullified with this build. The Locomotive when paired with Overkill will one shot headshot everything under the right circumstances, and costs far fewer skill points. The .50 cal and GL40 don’t benefit from it, and the modded AMR should be at 50 dmg, enough to 2 shot headshot tans exactly, and would not benefit from 25% more headshot damage.

Q: What should I do if the host threatens to kick me?
A: This has happened to me many times. If you are truly confident in your ability, stick to your guns. They likely think you are hacking, or have never seen someone use a suit in a non-stealth mission. Try to convince them you are not hacking, and if they still threaten you, put on the LBV, BV, or HBV and play like you normally would. Anything above the HBV isn’t worth using with this build, either go all the way or none at all.
Notes on Perk Decks and Fugitive Skills
With the recent updates introducing perk decks and fugitive skills, not much has changed with this build. There are essentially two branches of this build now available: Iron Man Ace with the Muscle perk deck, or Duck and Cover Ace and Run and Gun Ace with the Rogue perk deck. I have been experimenting with both, and they are both viable options. Duck and Cover with Rogue and the Judge is optimal for Death Wish, as you should be crouching behind cover or sprinting most of the time. The original skill loadout with Muscle Perk deck still works for Overkill and below, however. I personally love the speed bonus of Run and Gun (considering it negates the "Blending In" perk bonus of -1 speed to suit). The extra speed means faster revives, quicker access to objectives, etc. The 65% dodge while sprinting and 55% dodge while crouching makes you feel invincible, but when you take damage, you take A LOT of damage. This means in general less dependence on Medic bags, but more unrecoverable downs when overextending.
Final Thoughts
I know this build is not for everyone, and is lacking in some areas, namely stealth ability. This build is intended for mostly loud missions under deathwish (although it can be tweaked a bit to fit for deathwish). If you wish to stealth and get rid of some skills such as Iron Man Ace, make sure not to unlock the t4 ghost bonus. The bonus nerfs the speed of the suit to that of the LBV, and gets rid of one of the two advantages of the suit over the LBV.
Thank you for taking the time to read my first guide. Feel free to ask me questions or leave suggestions in the comments below. Please remember to rate and help me spread the word of the viability of running suit only. Happy hunting!
64 Comments
The Lime ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  [author] 27 Jul, 2015 @ 10:48pm 
@Tbone3491 Guide is kill. In order to update the guide for the current state of dodge builds would require I start over from scratch, as the meta has completely changed. There are tons of guides out there on running current dodge builds, but this guide can still serve as a reminder of how dodge used to work before fugitive and perk decks.
Shank 27 Jul, 2015 @ 12:16pm 
Update guide please!
The Lime ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  [author] 4 Nov, 2014 @ 11:17am 
@Thucydides, it does work to knock back shields, however there is one major flaw with all non-weapon butt melees: the delay from striking to putting it away. This tiny delay may not seem like much, but it basically makes everything other than weapon butt impossible to kill knocked back shields with. Try it for yourself in an offline game with iron man ace, it really makes the diference.
The Lime ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  [author] 27 Oct, 2014 @ 5:11pm 
@Dennaton, I doubt it. I really don't think there will be any set of skills in the new skill tree that will be detrimental to this build, at least for me. I really can't see any better build for loud, unless the skills are unproportionally over powered.
Emvyell 27 Oct, 2014 @ 1:14pm 
Now, after Hoxton came back, you probably have lots of stuff to change @The Skills :D
The Lime ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  [author] 26 Oct, 2014 @ 2:23pm 
@Dennaton, I will when I get the time, but really all you need to know is this: Use the muscle perk deck, and it will be the same as it was pre-update. You give up 14% dodge (pre-update) to get 30% more health (160% max pre-update, now 190%).
Emvyell 26 Oct, 2014 @ 12:53pm 
Can you please update the guide, I'm kinda confused of the perks'n stuff:meatytears:
The Lime ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)  [author] 24 Oct, 2014 @ 10:12pm 
@Mrksmn567, the extra 25% comes from Sprinter Ace. You're right in that the Muscle desk gives 90% more health. I didn't origionally see that "Meat Shield" gave 10% more health.
Mrksmn567 24 Oct, 2014 @ 7:32pm 
and I think the muscle deck gives 90% extra
Mrksmn567 24 Oct, 2014 @ 7:31pm 
where do you get the 25% bonus from? I thought the suit only had 10 standard.