DARK SOULS™ III

DARK SOULS™ III

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PVP for new players - Why are invaders so strong? [PART 2]
By aloofbit
Hi! This is part 2 of an introduction to pvp for new Dark Souls 3 players. See Part 1 here. I hope these guides will help get new players involved in PVP.

In this guide we will make an observation on what makes some invaders so strong:
  • Out geared
  • Out consumed
  • Out played

Please comment additional tips, any errors made, or improvements we can add to the guide!
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Before Reading
These notes were made while playing in high wall for a couple weeks. I found that there isn't many super geared invaders. Around 1/10 invaders max geared, 1/2 invaders had at least maxed out rings (huge advantage), and other players were casually geared.

I made a bunch of new friends while making this guide! Many of the invaders I ran into were friendly and did not want to fight when I was alone. Only dueling if I gave a shield bump signaling to fight.
Out Geared
Invaders are players that may have played farther in the game than you. This can give them access to gear that can overcome host health advantage. Let's take a look at the rings, weapons, and armor they could have.


Sometimes a geared invader is easy to distinguish due to armor and weapons. The right most looks like a normal player but we will learn that you can not judge a book by its cover.

Rings


The end game and DLC content offer powerful rings. A geared invader may have the three most powerful stat rings. Additionally a specific stat ring for equipment or the hornet ring.

We will use an SL10 character with 20 Vigor to do some calculations to see how much advantage they can give. (This math was done poking with soulsplanner. If any errors please mention in comments I will update immediately)

Ring of Favor[darksouls3.wikidot.com]
Increases max HP by 6%, Stamina by 12% and max Equip Load by 8%.
~ 2 levels of Vigor
~ 7 levels of Endurance
~ 4 levels of Vitality

Prisoner's Chain[darksouls3.wikidot.com]
Increases each Vigor, Endurance, Vitality by 5 points (15 levels)

Havel's Ring[darksouls3.wikidot.com]
Increases maximum Equip Load by 19%.
~ 10+ levels of vitality

Priestess Ring, Knight's Ring, Hunter's Ring, Scholar Ring[darksouls3.wikidot.com]
Increases a specific stat by 5 levels. (Faith, Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence)

Carthus Milkring[darksouls3.wikidot.com]
Increases Dexterity by 3 and obscurse rolling.

Hornet Ring[darksouls3.wikidot.com]
Increases damage dealt by backstabs and ripostes.

When using all these rings in combination an SL 10 invader can get over 40 levels beyond their base soul level.


Armor

  • An invader can have access to all armor sets.
  • Using the tool souls planner[soulsplanner.com] an invader can mix and match the optimal pieces to get maximum defenses.
  • While using rings the invader can equip this armor and still not slow roll.
  • Blocking over 30% of a damage combined with massive health pools can make an invader seem invincible.
  • The knight starting set is the toughest starting class armor. It gives 23.8 % 27.9% / 26.6% in comparison. This is tough but can be too heavy using anything other than long sword and shield making a player need to switch to lighter gear in favor of stronger weapons.


Weapons and Shields

  • An invader can have access to all weapon/shield in the game.
  • An invader can have all their weapons upgraded to the proper weapon level. Due to limited upgrade materials at the beginning of the game a new player might only have 1 to 2 weapons upgraded.
  • Having all these weapons allows an invader to adapt to many situations.
  • An invader is able to equip heavier and higher level requirement weapons with the usage of rings.

Dark Hand

A common weapon seen in low level pvp. This weapon is the only of its kind.

  • Dark hand can not be upgraded but starts with an insane 300 attack power.
  • Dark hand attacks very fast and takes little stamina.
  • Dark hand requires zero stats.
  • Dark hand pwns new players.

Dragon Slayer Axe
This weapon is less common than dark hand in SL 1 - 20 PvP. It hits hard. (~369 AP with buff)

This axe does so much damage it was faster for the invader to kill the host by not taking the riposte
  • Dragon slayer axe hits hard.
  • Dragon slayer axe has more range than dark hand.
  • Dragon slayer axe pwns new players.
Out Consumed
An invader can have all consumables unlocked. Along with unlimited quantities of these consumables. These consumables that a player might be saving for a difficult enemy an invader can use carelessly.




Since an invader has unlimited supply of consumables that would normally be very limited. They can use these in every invasion.

Health Restoration
An invader can have a fully upgraded estus flask, 10 seigbraus, and a divine blessing to restore their HP over the course of a fight.
  • A fully upgraded estus flask restores 600hp.
  • Using the estus ring increases only Estus flask by 20% (720hp)
  • A seigbrua restores based on player hp. 100 * (HP * 20%)
  • A divine blessing heals faster, heals to full, and cures effects.

Let's look at how much total health that can give an invader at SL10 with 20 vigor (~1,000 hp).

Consumable
HP Restored
HP Restored (with estus ring)
Fully consumed
Fully consumed (with estus ring)
Estus Flask +10
600
720
4,200
5,040
Siegbrau
300
300
3,000
3,000
Divine Blessing
750
750
750
750
Total
1650
1770
7,950
8,790

If an invader uses all of these health restoration items in an invasion they can take 7,950 to 8,790 damage plus their beginning health. That is almost over 9,000!

Using a long sword upgraded to +2 and doing around 60-80 damage per swing it would take over 128 - 140 hits to kill this invader.

Weapon buffs


Weapon buffs add around 50-80 damage to each hit.

An invader can have maxed out quantities of buffs and can use them in every invasion.
An invader has all types of weapon buffs. This allows them to test different buffs on a player to get the most damage. (often dark)
A new player might also have access to buffs but is saving them for PvE challenges and getting more at the beginning of the game is time consuming.

Bombs / Ammunition



An invader has access to ALL ammunition[darksouls3.wikidot.com]. This includes bombs and exploding crossbow bolts. For a new player these are extremely hard to dodge and do massive damage.

Out played
With so much advantage in gear and consumables one might think some invaders are trying to compensate for not knowing how to play the game. During a couple weeks playing in High Wall I found these players can be no slouch when it comes to spacing, roll catching, mixing up attack patterns, parrying, backstabbing, trading fundamentals, and more.

Spacing
Spacing is the foundation of dark souls combat. It is being able to tell the hitbox and timing of a weapon and be able to step outside and inside that hitbox when necessary. A player might whiff punish, backstab, or parry using proper spacing.


This invader out spaces me by staying right out of range then stepping in.


Spacing takes a lot of experimentation. Slower weapons can be easier to space.

Stamina management
A good invader knows to not run their stamina bar to zero swinging wildly. They can also break a players shield by running them out of stamina.

Try to only swing for a reason and put down your shield if getting low on stamina. Taking a hit to the face is better than getting shield broken.


I'm holding my shield up. This invader is able to kick and break my guard. I should only hold my shield when a player is attacking

Parrying
Some invaders are good at timing parries. Others are able to mash the parry button due to having so much health and armor.


A parry is typically a tell of a pattern in your gameplay. This invader attacks out of roll many times. In preperation we throw a parry on one of the rolls and are able to land it.


Some parries are landed by mashing the parry button in certain situations. After landing an attack or right out of hitstun are good times to mash the parry.

To not get parried you need to mix up your attack patterns to make it hard for an opponent to time a parry. Additionally you can punish parries by going for backstabs or attacking while an invader is in parry animation. Even then you can still get parried when an invader gets a good read or lucky.

Roll catching
A player can get roll caught if spamming roll and not waiting for a player to swing to then roll. It is extremely hard to get out of a roll catch as a new player. A new player is used to being able to panic roll out of PvE.


To roll catch a player must stagger their attacks. See how we wait after the hit lands for the player to get out of stun then swing again to time it perfectly with the end of the players roll.

To prevent getting roll caught a player must wait after rolling. See if the player is going to attack. If a player starts to wind up an attack wait a moment then roll only the forward swing of the attack.

Backstabbing
A way to put out high damage is with a backstab. Invaders can read a new players patterns and wait for the right moment.


This player was using staggered R1s for most of the fight. I thought I could parry but this allowed them to go for the backstab.


I try to backstab this player and in return they one up me by using a roll stab. On my screen it looks like I turned around but on theirs I am still showing my back and they timed it perfectly.

Usage of PvE and environment
Hand to hand combat is not the only way to kill a host. An invader can also try to lure a player into monsters or use the map to their advantage to get a 1v1.


If an invader lures you into PvE try to kill the PvE immediately then refocus. I did not riposte this player because they were new to invading and trying their best.


This invader uses PvE as cover to heal and cast tears of denial. Then is also able to get some hits in while I try to stay aggressive
What is next?
After reading this it might seem there is no point in trying to defeat an invader. This might cause a player to be afraid of PvP or to even quit out of the game. Instead I think we should observe these invaders. Learn their strategies, improve our gameplay, and fight back.

In part 3 we will make a PvP build. This build only requires a couple hours and killing two bosses. A good PvP build will allow you to make mistakes and learn mechanics of the game.






Thank you for reading and hope to see you out there!

See Part 3: Making a PvP Build



16 Comments
mui> 12 Mar, 2021 @ 5:23pm 
they arent you just suck lel
Harmona* 19 Jan, 2021 @ 3:57pm 
DS3 PvP is all about spacing. Forget about consumables because in DS3 From rigged the game against invaders: they get half estus flask charges and lower hp than the host. Also, the host can summon *infinite* companions.

There are specific regions more prone to be invaded, like the cathedral or the starting areas.

There are level brackets more prone to be invaded, like soul level 10-30 and 100-120, because of how matchmaking works, and because at those levels builds are 99% complete.

There are still people fatrolling at soul level 400+.

The host can also use the shapeshifting item and hide from invaders, which is boring af.

The host can also rush to the boss room, immediately banishing the invader.

The host can have up to 5 companions (you have to do some shady stuff to accomplish this iirc, but still).

The host can use the seed thingy to turn the npc enemies against the invader.

TLDR: the victim is the invader. Please just drop on his sword. Thanks.
Sushi 13 Jan, 2021 @ 9:56am 
The only problem is when a guy from mars connects and you get hit by air molecules
Salty Sis' 4U 2 Jan, 2021 @ 5:53am 
And I don't much care for consumables, period.
Salty Sis' 4U 2 Jan, 2021 @ 5:53am 
Parsify 28 Dec, 2020 @ 1:42am
"Super cool guide. Shows how hard the life of a beginner is.

But unlimited Siegbrau and Divines are practical only for cheaters. You get only 5 Siegbrau and 6 or 7 Divines per playthrough."

This. I'unno about other invaders, but I usually don't use my estus to heal unless the host does.
Salty Sis' 4U 2 Jan, 2021 @ 5:52am 
In summary: New players have a lot more experience and skill, typically, than a newbie.
...But you can also summon a friend to aid you..
And they can drop weapons you didn't have yet, even if not leveled fully.
ZTL-Altima 27 Dec, 2020 @ 9:42pm 
Super cool guide. Shows how hard the life of a beginner is.

But unlimited Siegbrau and Divines are practical only for cheaters. You get only 5 Siegbrau and 6 or 7 Divines per playthrough.



aloofbit  [author] 15 Dec, 2020 @ 3:21pm 
Hi! Ty for help with guide. I've made 3! Please let me know any missing information, errors, or updates we can make.

Part 3: Making a PvP Build
BizJak 10 Dec, 2020 @ 9:03am 
I invade the people who bait invaders :)))
Made in China 9 Dec, 2020 @ 9:18am 
@Kama Nightfire We're talking about normal progression noob hosts. All of the benefits of the Knight are lost on them, especially including any worthwhile spells. The only thing the Knight gets at that point that others don't is maybe the armor. You essentially want as much VIG as possible, while meeting the minimum requirements for the Claymore. Everything else is extra.
That being said, if you're looking to twink, I can DM you some builds that are only possible on Deprived/Warrior and aren't possible on Knight.